Today Coach Anna and I are going to be talking about one of the hotly debated topics,

What we’ve been seeing with our clients and what we think is going to happen in 2021.

So buckle up because we cover a lot of ground including,

  • How the landscape has changed due to COVID
  • What 2021 is going to look like
  • The biggest areas we are seeing our clients struggle in due to the pandemic
  • And much more

How To Deal With Breakups And COVID In 2021

Chris Seiter:
Recording now. Okay. So today, Anna and I are taking on the big fish, the white whale, which is basically… I’ve been reading too many… For some reason I’ve been reading Moby Dick lately. So anyways, take of that what you may. Today, we’re going to be talking about what to expect in 2021, because we all know 2020… So I get the sense, and I don’t know what your sense is but 2020 everyone’s always looking forward to 2021 as like, Oh my God, things are going to be so much better in 2021.

Chris Seiter:
But I get the sense it’s not going to be as great as you think. I think you’re still going to be facing a lot of the same challenges and that’s what Anna and I want to talk about today, which is, what challenges are you going to be facing regarding your breakup and relationship in 2021, with regards to things like the no contact rule or building rapport. What does the global pandemic do to that? So…

Anna:
Yeah.

Chris Seiter:
Yeah, I don’t even know what to say here. So maybe let’s just start like… This is the angle I think we should take, which is, 2020, what have you noticed that’s different in 2020 from 2019 before the pandemic? Just with regrads to…

Anna:
With regards to… One, there are more breakups than ever.

Chris Seiter:
Yeah, you know it’s funny, I didn’t know how to feel about it because it was like when the pandemic happened, I remember you and I were talking and-

Anna:
I told you there would be more.

Chris Seiter:
You and I were talking and I was like, “Anna, I’m worried, there’s a recession going on, our business… We might be in trouble.” And business was actually better than ever [00:01:42]. I don’t know what to make of it, it’s super cool from a business perspective but super crappy from a relationship perspective.

Anna:
It’s been a sad year for anyone in a relationship. And what I have found is, unless relationship is incredibly strong, both of you are very mature, both of you are very self-aware, your relationship has likely suffered.

Chris Seiter:
Yeah. You know-

Anna:
Both are very healthy, like physically. I mean, because you’ve gone through some stuff-

Chris Seiter:
That’s what I was going to say. So 2020 a lot of people… So 2020 has affected me in a different way and the fact that I had… So I was on my third and fourth surgery, I think by that time, and that takes a toll when your health is… And I can’t imagine someone who tested positive for COVID going into the hospital and what that does. And then of course we have breakups and what that does, so it’s been a messy year.

Anna:
It’s been a messy year.

Chris Seiter:
So, what have you been noticing, obviously more breakups than ever.

Anna:
Mm-hmm(affirmative).

Chris Seiter:
But from the people breaking up, from a perspective like how are they going to get their exes back? Have you noticed anything different and especially… Because you are the one going through most of the big coaching calls, so you have the data.

Anna:
Yeah. I mean, people are experiencing a lot of difficulty particularly when it comes to building rapport and moving along the value chain. So they’re finding they are spending a lot more time in texting, right? In the texting phase and having to get really creative with when they finally get to the meeting phase with online dates and online activities. So there’s been an increase in gaming, virtual escape rooms, virtual trivia nights. I’ve had some clients literally, I don’t know how they did this because we… I mean, it was so intriguing to me, but we didn’t have time to go into it. They built a puzzle together, but they were long distance. So I don’t know how that happens virtually.

Chris Seiter:
Maybe there’s like an app.

Anna:
Maybe.

Chris Seiter:
I don’t know.

Anna:
I don’t know. But people have gotten really creative on spending time together in order to build rapport or get that, even if they don’t have the face-to-face time because quarantine, they’re finding ways to connect emotionally. And social media has become even more important than before but with the pandemic, there’s less opportunity to have these great backdrops, right? Of the outside or going on trips. So again, trying to be creative and also be [inaudible 00:04:28] at the same time while staying at home.

Chris Seiter:
Yeah. It’s a paradox in that way, because a lot of times the natural thinking of someone who’s [inaudible 00:04:38], someone who’s out there. They’re doing things, but were prevented from doing stuff like that.

Anna:
Right.

Chris Seiter:
But I’m actually curious. You’re mentioning a lot of people having trouble building rapport. So what method… So building rapport through texting, building rapport through just virtual, talking on the phone, FaceTime, things like that, where are they struggling the most?

Anna:
Well, it’s getting past texting and figuring out where to go from there because we have the normal progression of texting and then phone calls-

Chris Seiter:
Right.

Anna:
And meeting in person [crosstalk 00:05:19].

Chris Seiter:
Okay. So this is ultimately… You’re noticing a lot of issues there that’s the funnel point where a lot of people are missing. Is there any generalization in how you can look at your clients and sit there and say, “Okay, most of them are doing this. Most of them are doing this wrong.” In your opinion, what are they doing wrong?

Anna:
Well, they’re allowing themselves to get stuck on, the only way I can interact with my ex is if I do it in person, or the only way I can demonstrate change is if I’m able to go outside, or travel or be around people. And so you have to get past that part. You can always demonstrate [inaudible 00:06:01] you are by taking on a new hobby. You can still exercise at home, you can still interact with people, you can interact with your ex in as much as it not as great to not do it in person, you can still do it virtually. Right?

Chris Seiter:
Okay. So what’s interesting is, to me it seems like it’s a mindset. They have this mental block like, okay, well, that’s not how it’s going to work. So is it one of those self defeated attitudes that they come in all ready or they enter into the texting phase all ready with this mindset of, no, this absolutely has to happen in person. There’s no way this digital thing can work.

Anna:
Well, it’s new. So a lot of people tend to be skeptical at the beginning. So you just have to… I mean, you shouldn’t break the law, right?

Chris Seiter:
Uh-huh(affirmative).

Anna:
If your city or state or province or country has you in quarantine, you should not be doing things that breaks the law, right? Or different mandates. So you have to just accept it and try to be creative. Right? Or for example, join a Facebook group, right? And ask for suggestions and there’s tons of suggestions all the time on how to get around things.

Chris Seiter:
It’s actually really interesting because a lot of the best suggestions I find, a lot of people, especially when I’ll write an article or do a YouTube video and they’ll say, “Oh my God, that’s such a good idea.” It’s not my idea. It’s from the creative people that I’ve stolen from the Facebook group, they’re just like, Hey, we’re doing this and I’m like, Oh my God, that’s working.

Anna:
Right. I mean, when you have thousands of people active-

Chris Seiter:
We just had 5,000, I don’t know.

Anna:
[inaudible 00:07:44] say 5,000?

Chris Seiter:
Yeah.

Anna:
Amazing.

Chris Seiter:
I think [inaudible 00:07:46] 5,000. That’s actually pretty good now.

Anna:
I really think that if all the success stories stayed, our group would be seven or 8,000.

Chris Seiter:
Yeah. Well, that’s the other interesting thing, there’s a little bit of a turnover. There’s a [inaudible 00:07:59] to it. But we’re getting off topic here, I suppose. Okay. So, you have to be willing to accept the more the digital methods. I read something really interesting yesterday, actually. I was trying to figure out… Whenever I tried to write an article or film a YouTube video, I’m always like, okay, what’s a new way I can put this. I was watching a video from Chris Voss, never split the difference guy. And he made a really interesting point about the tone. So it’s almost like… Especially when it comes to texting, a lot of times people don’t realize in regards in this thing, he was talking about emails. I was thinking, well, emails is a form of texting if you’re able to finagle in your head.

Anna:
It’s old school texting.

Chris Seiter:
It’s the old school texting, which is… It is what it is but he said something really interesting, which was a lot of people don’t think that there’s a tone to an email, but that’s wrong. There is a tone. And he was making the point that a lot of times when you write a text message, I’m just using my own analogy here. But when you’re writing a text message, you’re writing it with a certain tone. There’s almost a guarantee that the person you’re sending the text message to is not going to read it in that same tone. So one of suggestions he made was basically reading the text or reading the email in his case out loud, in the most harsh tone as possible. And if it can’t survive the harsh tone, you need to reword the text. Have you ever noticed issues like that with texting?

Anna:
Yes. And that is actually a classic public relations technique that I tell a lot of my coaching clients.

Chris Seiter:
Yeah. So if you don’t know Anna, literally run one of the biggest public relations businesses in the world, so one of the coolest aspects of having Anna, she’s like your own personal PR.

Anna:
Yeah. Well, I mean, getting an expert literally is [crosstalk 00:10:00]. Is like a rebranding campaign. [inaudible 00:00:10:01].

Chris Seiter:
That’s just such a creative way of looking at it, but okay so like classic PR technique.

Anna:
Technique which is… We all have this capability on our phones, right? Record it. Record yourself saying in the harshest tone possible, listen to yourself and ask, Hey, how does this sound? How’s this coming across? And I probably need to change my words.

Chris Seiter:
So he said… Saying… What was it? There’s certain words you can say-

Anna:
Why, like you don’t say why.

Chris Seiter:
Yeah. But there’s, I forgot what he called them. He called them email qualifiers or it’s something that you can put in there that no matter how you say it, even if it’s a harsh way, it’s taken in a positive way. And it’s something it’s like, Oh, sorry and I’m aware.

Anna:
Yeah. I’m aware is one of them.

Chris Seiter:
I don’t think saying, “I’m sorry,” works in this context, but just to give you an idea, there are some finagling you can do with certain words to…

Anna:
I want to say, I think I understand is one of them or even something along those lines. If you have a subscription to masterclass.com, for example-

Chris Seiter:
Yeah.

Anna:
You can… Or just read his book which is really great.

Chris Seiter:
Yeah, I went through his book in a whole weekend. For me, it was really mind blowing and how many applications there are to this process.

Anna:
Yes.

Chris Seiter:
Because a lot of times it is a negotiation… You’re talking about it, it’s like a PR thing, which is also true [crosstalk 00:11:44]. So it’s this interesting mix between the two.

Anna:
Mm-hmm(affirmative).

Chris Seiter:
You’re saying you’re seeing some issues with regards to how text messages are worded or is it more of a tactical errors by people when it comes to their texting?

Anna:
Well, I think it’s tactical. Well, it’s both strategic and tactical errors, right? So when you communicate with any ex, you want it to sound, one as natural as possible between the two of you but you want it to be the smarter, more directed version of that, essentially. So that’s why you should record yourself, reading out loud in this harsh tone your texts, right? You should also not make the rookie mistake, for example, of texting too much or apologizing when you don’t have to. These are just a couple of instances. All right. Or after you send your text out, not taking it personally, if the person… If your ex reads your text, but you see that person online.

Chris Seiter:
Yeah. That’s a really big one too, because you see that a lot. Because a lot of the times our clients, they’re super obsessive about checking to see if he or she’s online and it sets him off when they’ve read it, but they haven’t responded, but they’re doing something else?

Anna:
Yeah. Like how dare this person actually have a life outside of texting me.

Chris Seiter:
But I mean, if we’re all being honest, we’ve all been there. I’ve done it.

Anna:
[inaudible 00:13:17].

Chris Seiter:
I think it’s a normal, natural thing, but it’s also… It’s a little… It doesn’t make you look very good.

Anna:
Yeah. It doesn’t. I mean that anxious state of mind will drive you to distraction. I mean, that’s why every time when I was going through my process, I threw my phone behind the couch.

Chris Seiter:
I was thinking of this the other day, actually. I was putting together a shoe holder for Jen and I was working with a designer on something and he hadn’t gotten back to me and he was really annoying me. And I was checking constantly, why hasn’t he gotten back? To the point where I was like, Oh, I’m getting frustrated. So I put on some music and just started working. And it took me two hours to put the stupid shoe thing together [inaudible 00:14:03] you know? And then when I had realized, Oh my God, two hours have gone by, I can’t believe it. And of course there was like five texts from him there. And then it’s interesting the other day too, I was thinking about that thing. And it fits into this concept of a flow state.

Chris Seiter:
I don’t know if you’ve ever researched anything about flow states, but actually I think there is something to really hitting the flow state or trying to achieve this flow state while you’re distracting yourself because time can move faster, even though it’s not really moving faster, but for you, it can move faster and it can distract you while you’re not focusing on your… That’s just… I guess it would be my suggestion, but…

Anna:
Yeah.

Chris Seiter:
I don’t know how we got over here. We’re supposed to be talking about what to expect in 2020, when we’re talking about carpentry and…

Anna:
Right. But it’s a nice sidebar. When you’re building rapport, I think especially in a pandemic, right, in 2020, and I think we’re going to be seeing this also in 2021, when your movements are restricted and when your social interactions are severely restricted, all right? We’re going to see increased rates or continued higher rates of anxiety and depression, which is going to have a direct impact on your ability to build rapport and to maintain emotional control, when you try to build rapport or connect with your ex, right? Because what we’re experiencing now, it’s not as if when January 1st, 2021 happens, the world will be a much better place, we’ll be able to go outside and do all these things. I think that we should expect in anyone who’s building rapport or in the middle of a breakup, right. In 2021, we should expect more of 2020 just as we’re experiencing it now until about at least April or May.

Chris Seiter:
I would actually… I hate to break it to everyone. My opinion is that 2021 is going to be pretty shot too. I don’t know what it’s like where you are, but like everywhere, you’re not allowed to go in without the mask.

Anna:
I live in Georgia so…

Chris Seiter:
It’s a little… I live in Florida, so it’s pretty much the same thing, but at least in my town where I live, the mask and I actually can’t imagine the mask mandate going away for a long time.

Anna:
[inaudible 00:16:31].

Chris Seiter:
So I think it’s a little naive to sit there and think that the movement restrictions are just going to be all of a sudden lifted in 2021.

Anna:
Right.

Chris Seiter:
So it’s almost best to get with the new way of doing things. What we’re noticing is working, which is a little bit of a higher premium on some of the digital stuff and social media, and really putting, putting the effort into understanding this is the best way I should be texting. Now let’s talk about texting a little bit because that’s where essentially the funnel is right here, where we’re having trouble. This is where a lot of people are getting lost, that transition phase between text messages to really talking on the phone. Have you found any interesting ways of bridging the gap there for some of your clients?

Anna:
I mean, I don’t think transitioning from texting to video calls, for example, like Face Time or Skype videos or even Zoom calls. Right? Has changed much. Right. What has really changed… I mean, to get from what from texting to video calls, right. It’s pretty simple, right? You just say, “Hey, I came across this thing or I have something funny to tell you, it’s too much text [crosstalk 00:17:58] call you.” There you go. Right. It’s easier to do that. Right. Or it’s, “Oh my gosh, I had this funny thing to show you, my cat is doing this crazy thing and I got a FaceTime you now.” There you go. All right, that’s easy to do. The part that’s difficult that I get a lot is, and how do I transition from texting or phone calls to in-person, right, when there’s a pandemic. And the answer is virtual, right. You have to do virtual dates. All right. As much as you can. So this is where if you are 35 or below, you should be. If your ex is into gaming, for example, you need to start looking into that as well.

Chris Seiter:
So basically what Anna’s telling you is buy a PlayStation five.

Anna:
Yes. [crosstalk 00:18:56] PC, right. That’s because… I mean, I game on a PC, so… But I have a PS5.

Chris Seiter:
Really?

Anna:
Yeah.

Chris Seiter:
I said to my wife. I said, ” Hey, I wouldn’t mind one of those PS5s.” And she doesn’t seem pleased about it because she doesn’t want to lose me to the video games. Sometimes I have a tendency to zone in. I can hit a flow state with video games.

Anna:
I mean, it’s really fun. I mean, think about it for your daughter. I mean, she might like, for example, doing things like Minecraft or the Sims.

Chris Seiter:
We tried Minecraft. Minecraft is a little hard because then I am a lot more interested in it than she is.

Anna:
Oh, no.

Chris Seiter:
Yeah but those are separate problems. So the transitionary phase… Because this is just what I’ve noticed, I think that it’s almost like there’s this barrier between each of the phases. Like once you get comfortable in texting, usually texting go pretty seamlessly, but there’s always a transitionary barrier to breaking through text into the phone calls.

Anna:
Yes.

Chris Seiter:
The barrier gets even more difficult to peers. Yeah. As you get into the video chat to in person type thing, especially when you have the added pandemic type of rules. Now, I’m curious what you think about this. Let’s say both of you decide, Hey, we both want to go on a date, like an in-person date. We want to see each other in person, we’d like to quarantine for… I don’t know, a week or something like that, is that a potential option that you can see people take?

Anna:
I actually, I’ve had a couple of clients do that. And as they’ve gotten closer and closer to being back together, and I say that makes sense, just make sure that you have a number of virtual dates and a couple of really long phone calls. Obviously the flirting and all that other stuff that you do, but you need to have the ability to have really great, serious conversations about expectations and what you’re doing, this’ll be fun, it’ll be amazing. You have to feel comfortable and you have to also expect your ex to feel comfortable enough to say this is what I’m concerned about. Right. I have no problem with it. I think it’s okay but just don’t go into that thinking all right, immediately after this week is over, we’re going to be so back together.

Chris Seiter:
Yeah. There was… I can’t remember her name. She was one of the success stories who ended up doing coaching with you. She was a teacher in Japan, I want to say. She taught English for Japanese students, but she [crosstalk 00:21:40].

Anna:
Was [inaudible 00:21:40] that her?

Chris Seiter:
I don’t remember.

Anna:
[inaudible 00:00:21:48].

Chris Seiter:
But she had a really interesting approach, which was very similar to what you were saying. She had a lot of these longer conversations over the phone and stuff and this build up into finally seeing each other in person. So what Anna is saying here can work. It’s just different than what we normally preach because we’re in abnormal circumstances, with a global pandemic it’s not as simple as just saying like, Hey… Especially if you live in LA, a lot of times right now, but LA is actually taking it very seriously. Right? So a lot of the restaurants are closed down, so it’s not possible to just say, “Hey, let’s go grab a bite to eat.” So I think it’s very geo specific also. And unfortunately it seems like it’s going to get worse now that the winter is here and it’s already getting worse. So this …looks like Anna, she’s already got the virus over. I’m just kidding.

Anna:
Oh my gosh. I hope not. Although, I was in a town recently in Western Georgia where very few people wore masks. And so I was very nervous and kept steering my husband away from everyone. I said, what is going on? But then I thought, Oh, it’s Western Georgia.

Chris Seiter:
Well, you know what’s interesting is I had to drive up from Florida to Wisconsin and you can see state by state. So you get up to Georgia and usually we stopped right around Northern Georgia, they weren’t wearing masks. And then we get to Tennessee.

Anna:
No mask.

Chris Seiter:
No masks. Then we get to Illinois, a little bit of masks. Then we get to Wisconsin, a little bit more masks and then eventually when we’re like… Where I was going was really near the border between Wisconsin and Minnesota and almost everyone wore masks.

Anna:
Yeah.

Chris Seiter:
So it was really interesting to see the progression as you go up through the country. So, I understand when you see someone not wearing a mask and you’re like, Oh my God, I got to stay away from that person. Especially in these really dingy gas stations that you have to use the restroom. And so it’s…

Anna:
It’s like you hold your breath the whole time.

Chris Seiter:
Yeah. But it won’t help you know. If it gets in your eye or something.

Anna:
Oh my gosh.

Chris Seiter:
So we’re talking about… This turned into a COVID…

Anna:
A COVID discussion. But I mean, going back, I think that people should expect obviously, reduced or restricted social contact or contact with people, which is going to turn into mental health concerns and obviously physical health concerns. So in trying to build… Excuse me. In trying to build rapport, I mean, part of building rapport, in my opinion also includes making sure that you have sufficient emotional control. Right? So in addition to talking to your ex regularly, you need to make sure you’ve got your own trinity in line, right? Join online support groups, like a Facebook group, right? Or set up regular conversations or interactions with your friends and family and coworkers. All right. I read an article recently in the Wall Street Journal where they were talking about Zoom fatigue. And so simply interacting by voice is still helpful. But in general, you want to try to include as much variety as possible and virtual activities with your ex as you build rapport, that’s essentially what that is. Right?

Chris Seiter:
So I think you make some really great points. The first point I’d like to just say like, this is exactly what I’m trying to preach, but you say it so much better than I intend to do on videos, which is the emotional control thing. I think the number one mistake, at least I tend to notice people, especially in the Facebook group, when I’ll do a Facebook live, you’ll see a lot of the same type of comments. And I think it’s a lot of times because people engage in conversations, texting even when they don’t have emotional control.

Anna:
Yeah.

Chris Seiter:
So there are a lot more likely to freak out at every little thing that doesn’t go their way. And the second thing that’s interesting is adding variety, which there’s a lot of variety that Anna’s talked about. So she’s talked about gaming, which is a really interesting variety because I grew up when world of Warcraft was a huge thing.

Chris Seiter:
So you could chat like that. And I’m not really so into the Fortnite gaming or anything like that. So I’m not right up to date with that. Other than just the one video game I’ll play every once in a while, I usually like single-player type stuff, but those are things that you can do. But I think… Well, it’s interesting the Wall Street Journal thing, talk about Zoom fatigue, which is talking to someone like Anna and I are talking right now. But one thing that I actually have been adopting lately is…. There’s this app on my iPhone called voice memos, it allows you to create these real quick voice notes that you can send to people. So just adding all variety to not just get fatigued in one area. I think it’s just such an essential part, especially in 2021 as you… Because I don’t think these restrictions are going to get lifted for a while.

Anna:
No, we’re looking at… I mean, at least in the United States, right? I mean, they’re rolling out vaccines in the UK right now, but in the United States, we’re still waiting on FDA approval. And right now we only have… The United States only has access to about a hundred million doses. So the current vaccine is two doses, which means only 50 million people will get them. I read some statistic where they’re about… I know of course you would expect healthcare workers to get that first and there are about 16 million healthcare workers in the United States. So those 50 million…

Chris Seiter:
It’s really more like-

Anna:
This is going to go really fast. So I mean, then we add on probably firefighters, policemen, and then I would assume people who would run public transportation or transportation of any kind, someone who’s like a frontline worker or essential worker, [inaudible 00:00:28:06].

Chris Seiter:
I think an underrated thing is I really feel for the grocery store workers.

Anna:
Yeah, I think they [crosstalk 00:28:18].

Chris Seiter:
Grocery store and I’m like, Oh my God, these people are here and fight. They’re seeing the most amount of people that are just..

Anna:
Yeah.

Chris Seiter:
But I heard also the vaccines are going to take a little while to [inaudible 00:28:25] out all of the kinks so that they’re super effective. You know, Jen was telling me in one article, she read that, Oh, the vaccine, I think you have to take in two doses or something, the first dose. And they’re a little bit worried right now about… Because you’ll get a fever with this vaccine or something, so you’re going to get sick and they’re worried that people will feel so bad they’re not going to want to come back for the second dose because it’s like, I’m not going to want to do that again.

Chris Seiter:
So you have to consider how many people are going to do that. So it adds this further complication and 2021 is going to be pretty rough too for a lot of people. And I think the one big elephant in the room that we really haven’t addressed yet and we’re running out of time which is, even though the stock market is not showing it, we’re still in the midst of a recession.

Anna:
Yeah.

Chris Seiter:
A lot of people have been losing their jobs consistently.

Anna:
Yes. Right.

Chris Seiter:
And that adds an extra layer of, I think, depression for exes, especially.

Anna:
100%. And we should continue to expect far reaching employment and business impacts in a negative sense. Right. And that in my experience is probably the number one or the number one driver or like the engine for a lot of breakups.

Chris Seiter:
I would say unequivocally, it’s the number.

Anna:
Yeah.

Chris Seiter:
I know it stresses me out and I can’t imagine someone else who has less than me. They’re probably very stressed out, who’s lost their job.

Anna:
Right.

Chris Seiter:
And I think we also see that a lot of times you’re in recessions, domestic violence goes up.

Anna:
Yes.

Chris Seiter:
Depression goes up, suicides go up. All of those things happen and it’s as a result of money. I mean, that’s just the hard truth of it.

Anna:
So if people are trying to get back exes who have gone through… Who’ve been laid off, fired or lost their… Or they have reduced work hours and then wonder, well, why is my ex not responding to me? You have to be mindful and you have to give that person more compassion because they’re likely to be turning inward and away from social contact, right. With you, especially.

Chris Seiter:
So I personally had no experience with depression until my injury, where I was on bed rest and I had to get four surgeries. And I literally felt like every single day, I’m just thinking, why am I waking up? I’m like… I’m not going to get better. What’s the point of this. I can definitely speak for someone who has maybe lost their job and you’re trying to get them back. And they’re like, Anna says, looking inward, sometimes nothing you can say will coax them out of it.

Anna:
Yeah.

Chris Seiter:
The best thing you can do is just try to understand their worldview from their perspective. That was like the only thing that worked on me, I feel like just having a really understanding wife who was like, I get what you’re going through. I see what you’re going through. It’s okay.

Anna:
Mm-hmm(affirmative). Yeah. I mean, you’re very lucky. You’re right. But I think anyone who’s listening to this should keep in mind that in a breakup, if your ex is going through a depression, your role is not to act as a partner. You are supposed to be supportive just as you would with any good friend. All right. But in the wake of a breakup, that persons does not, it should not have the privilege of leaning or being independent.

Chris Seiter:
Relying on you.

Anna:
Relying on you in the same way. Right? So you have to protect yourself. I also have gone through a severe depression that lasted a few years. It was situational and I was highly functioning, but I withdrew completely from the world or from social contact for a long period of time. And so I would say what got through to me is people continually reaching out to me and just saying, “If you want to talk about it, I’m here.” Right? And understanding that my depression was not… They should not take it personally. All right. That’s something that I have to fix my myself.

Chris Seiter:
I think this is an excellent point that you bring up too, because a lot of times I think our clients think it’s because of them. And usually it’s not.

Anna:
It’s never because of you. Right? A person’s depression is not because of other people, it’s external events. If it’s situational, it’s external events that are maybe somewhat related to you, perhaps there were arguments. Right? But there are other things that are influencing that. And if the depression is medical or chemical requiring medication, that definitely is not your fault. Right?

Chris Seiter:
Yeah. That’s… I don’t know if you can say it any better than that. But yeah. I mean, overall, Anna is just basically trying to say, the rules are from your perspective, if you’re trying to get someone who’s depressed back. It’s not like you’re going to become their caretaker.

Anna:
Yeah. And you should not be.

Chris Seiter:
Right. All we’re trying to do is just point out to you these are some of the challenges that can be present still in 2021, especially with the global pandemic going on and what we’re seeing, specifically, Anna seeing on her coaching calls, a lot of issues, building rapport, breaching that barrier of the in-person type thing.

Anna:
Right.

Chris Seiter:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems like to me, it’s a lot more of an emphasis on digital dates before you build it off goodwill before you have that actual in-person date, because you also have to quarantine, you got to make sure that both of you guys are safe and also it will be a little… Like, I think everyone’s also thinking that the vaccine’s going to be the cure. Everyone’s going to go back to normal, but it’s still going to take some time, right?

Anna:
Yeah. Right. Anyone with a science background will tell you, you want to not be the first, in the first group of people who gets the-

Chris Seiter:
I don’t. My parents are very pro-vaccine. Right? They don’t even want to get the vaccine first.

Anna:
Yeah. I don’t want to get the vaccine first either. I just want to see what happens with the other people.

Chris Seiter:
Yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah.

Anna:
[inaudible 00:35:24]. People, I mean… In general, because we expect the state of things that exists right now in 2020 to keep going into 2021, at least through mid year. At least. All right. That means the impact on building rapport or getting an ex back means that most likely your to get a person back is extended.

Chris Seiter:
Yeah. This is kind of the other elephant in the room that we haven’t addressed, which is a lot of people come to us and they think, I think they’re sold lies by other coaches like, Hey, you can get your ex back at 30 days. No.

Anna:
Any, recovery program who tells you that it’s like his lying.

Chris Seiter:
Yeah. It is what it is. We have our no contact rule is 30 days. Right? So, if you want a 30 day success, we’re not for you, we’re actually for actual success.

Anna:
Right.

Chris Seiter:
And the pandemic has just stretched that timeline even further. I feel like the average success story for us used to be three months. I feel like it’s now five or six months.

Anna:
It’s probably closer to six. I think.

Chris Seiter:
So there you go.

Anna:
And so you’ve got to have a lot of patients, make sure that you shore up your own emotional resources. Right. And be really easy on yourself and kind to yourself in this process and try not to take it personally, if your ex doesn’t respond in as you hoped.

Chris Seiter:
Yep. So I guess, that’s it. We probably should… We probably-

Anna:
Sounds like someone’s unhappy.

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