A Therapists Take On Breakups (With Matt Marr)

Alright, I want to take a moment to welcome Matt Marr to the show. Now, Mat’s an interesting guy, he has been in. Well, the thing that really stuck out to me, yes, he’s a clinical psychologist.

So, he definitely has a reason for being on the podcast but he’s kind of famous in the fact that he’s met Justin Timberlake. He’s been in so many commercials that I guarantee you’ve seen. Welcome to the show Matt!

Hey Chris! How are you? Thank you for having me! 

Yeah absolutely! So, why don’t you tell, let’s get the commercial thing out of the way. Because this is probably the most fascinating thing when I was looking through your reel. You had a Gym Parsons commercial where you know it was like the, he’s running and there’s the laptop thing. 

Oh, the Intel commercial. 

I think out of the entire reel, the thing that cracked me up the most was the pirate one. The eye patch one. 

That was my favorite commercial I’ve ever done and it only.

That’s so funny!

00:57 it was the State of Washington or Wyoming was giving away nicotine patches to help people stop smoking. So, they have this like commercial, this guy-me, like standing next to a pirate on a street corner and then stealing the patch off his eye and like running and this voice over says, “Free patches.”

It was actually my first–no, my second commercial that I ever shot and it was in downtown LA. I was just so stoked to do it and then it was –and the guy who played the pirate really was the grumpy and he had to wear like this wooden leg and like put his knee on it.

That was the funniest thing when you go running and then you just got this pirate with this wooden leg chasing you. That was the point where I was just like, this is hilarious!

It was my favorite–I think probably one of my favorite spots I did and it’s so funny that hardly anybody seen it because it only aired in the State of Wyoming. So, my mom, put it on her Facebook and her friend called and she said, “Oh my gosh! They’re playing that commercial all the time here!” So, if I went to Wyoming–

You’d be a superstar right? You’d the guy who stole the pirate patch. 

Pretty much!

And the other one–so, there’s a couple more I have to talk about before we actually get down to business. The other one that really cracked me up was the gay one where you’re about to get married and then this woman who you clearly have this preconceived notions about like, “Oh, how dare you ruin the sanctity of marriage?” And everything but it’s just like this stain on your shirt. That was a funny one too I thought!

Oh, thank you! That was actually a spec commercial. Meaning, it wasn’t a real commercial. It was for a director who-so, what a lot of people do, is they directors will invest their own time and a lot of money making this commercials that look like legit commercials and so, that way they can get agencies to pick them up and they get work.

And the woman actually, who played the church lady in that, Lynne Stewart. She actually is a 03:04 . She was on Pee Wee’s playhouse as Ms. Patty, I believe. What’s the character? So, that was cool and that commercial, that was the first thing I’ve ever done that became viral thing because we filmed that commercial and we filmed it, I think in, we filmed it in June and then like two weeks later The Supreme Court ruled gay marriage for the country and then like two weeks after that, Kim Davis kind of blew up as a political news worthy person. We didn’t even plan it that way.

It’s the perfect storm of this–

Yeah, exactly.

Right.

He just released the commercial in like I think 4 days and had 2 miliion views or something like that.

Man, that’s awesome.

People were pissed off at Tides thing.”I’m never buying Tide again!”

You always get those people you know.

I felt bad. Tide didn’t make this commercial.

Oh, Tide didn’t even do it. 

Yeah, they released a statement. They’re like, “We love parody.” They kind of approved it because they said, “We love parody. We will love it when people love our products so much. They want to.” So, we think that’s great. So, they kind of 04:11

Oh, that’s nice. And then finally the other one which I think is one of your favorite ones is the Justin Timberlake one. Now, from what I got, it looks like it was all planned out but was this, the commercial basically has you singing form his new album or something  and then it’s got him behind you and I don’t think you know he’s behind you or did you know he was behind you?

Sugar, we did not know! Like we had– Oh–

So, that his eyes are so blue. That was like an improve moment. Like it was like on the spot.

It was just–that was truth talk. That was my –like seriously, your shirt right now. Like think of that, that is, your shirt really blue. Justin Timberlake’s eyes are even bluer than that. Like you actually have really pretty blue eyes as well but Justin Timberlake’s eyes are like the bluest thing.

Different level. So, then there’s Chris and there’s JT and JT’s through the roof.

It’s not that far. It’s just right in there buddy! Give yourself some credit but yeah, it was–that was– we` were all–when we did that, that’s the audition that got me to the screen actor’s guild, that got me in the union. The audition was–there were actors, people that were for the most part– because that’s how they cast it but they cast it as my agent called or he sent an email to all of us saying, “Hey! Who’s a Justin Timberlake fan?” And I emailed him back immediately. It was like “Aaahhh!” And so,that’s who got cast. So, it really was true fans and it was great because the way they surprised people, they did it in kind of sections and my group was the first group and then they had to set up the shot.

So, what was the coolest part was is that we just–I just got to hang out with Justin Timberlake for about 3 hours and just talk to him about life and his music and kind of–and he was so interested in what was going on in my life. I mean it was literally, I felt like we should have had a red cello cup with beer in it and been on a barbecue. It’s just so chill. He was the nicest guy. He was so kind and one thing I’d say about that commercial is just kind of the person he was is that. So, at the end of the commercial, there was a shot of everybody and he requested that shot.

I heard him say it to the producer and he said, “No, I want to get–” Because they weren’t going to shoot that shot and he said, “No, I want to shoot this shot.” So, that way everybody gets  a residual and he did that because that’s the way 06:30 works. Like if I 06:32 and show in the commercial then you don’t get  a residual every time 06:36 . You just get paid for the day. So, that’s the difference of like you know, $600 of like $12,000 and he wanted to make sure everybody was in that commercial.

What a nice thing and not everyone would do that because clearly, whoever said it get up does not want to pay that much but can’t say no to Justin Timberlake.

I know. I love him. I love him love him. Such a sweet heart.

Alright, so, I think we’ve gone off topic enough.

07:03  So, I’ll do it. So, be careful.

Alright, so clinical psychology. Tell me a little bit about your background. How you came about wanting to maybe–you said you have a Master’s degree in clinical psychology. So, how did you go maybe from the clinical psychology realm to acting?

So, a lot of it was, my undergrad is in 07:27  University of North Texas where you said your brother goes. So, and so I did my undergrad music years ago and then I moved out to California. Well, I was going to go to Chicago and do all that and then this is a longer story that I will make short but I’m very lucky that my two musical idols are Shania Twain and Justin Timberlake and I’ve been able to like meet them both. And with Shania Twain, she called me up at a concert 07:58 city and I got to sing. She asked me to sing a song with her and it was awesome! It was great! It was life changing but then that, I told that story like–because I was like, this is back in the day when you like go into a Yahoo! like web fan page, like the Shania fan page and somebody said, “Oh, they’re looking for people to do this show.” And I emailed this producer. Long story short, I got this television gig from country music television where they include to Shania Twain’s home country, Canada and they filmed me like interviewing her teacher and where she worked. And it was hosting, it was hosting in front of a camera.

And I was just about to move to Chicago and then hopefully New York and pursue more theater and doing that, it reminded me of that what I’ve always really loved more than acting and performing art. As a kid, I was obsessed with talk shows and things like that, that I love what we do in podcasting. I love interviewing people’s stories and that kind. So, that’s really what always has drawn me. And so I moved to California and then I was like this country boy, living in L.A, just took me a bit to get settled. I didn’t really audition a lot and then I kind of was just looking for a more purpose in my life. And I started volunteering for the Trevor project which is a suicide help line for LGBT youth and I was a help line counselor. So, people would call in and talk to us when they are feeling suicidal or what not and I really liked it. So, if you know you like talking to helping kids that are suicidal, I’m like, “Ok, then obviously this therapy thing might work for me.”

So, that’s kind of what led me into my Master’s and then I was totally full on getting my Master’s. I kind of pursued the therapist route and solely and then it’s so funny that, going through the process–two things happened. Going through the process of getting my Master’s in therapy. I’ve never been in therapy or anything in my life. I realized that the reason I didn’t Google a lot of things in my life were fear and the fear of failing and I really wanted to have this talk show and I was just too scared to do it and being an actor. And that kind of started to happen and then honestly, I had a friend who just said, “Oh man, I know this person who kind of, like does this like hosting commercial class. You should take it just for fun and like they’ll give you a deal but you’ve got a really good face for commercials.”

And then that was it. I took this class and then I just kind of–I did well on the class and he said you should totally pursue this and get an agent and then I just kind of felt, “Well, I’ll do it just to get, just for a little extra money.” And then now, it’s really starting to– I mean, it’s starting a career. I mean you know my health insurance comes from that. You know from 10:31 and some things like that.  So, it’s now a part of my life that just kind of blossomed and yeah, it really has been–I mean I worked hard for it. That sound like it just happened to me. Once I decided I wanted to commit to it, I was taking commercial classes you know and working on my craft and things like that but that’s how I got into it but then I still– I have my summer camp for LGBT. So, I do the therapist stuff from that. I did coaching for actors and things as far as like 11:00 and things like that. So, I’m still doing therapy stuff too.

Yeah, it’s a really interesting story. I guess I kind of had it wrong. I thought you went the Master’s clinical psychology route and then stumbled into acting. It’s was kind of like acting and the psychology thing and then back to acting.

So, it’s interesting but of course, I’m interested in your clinical psychology degree because people listening to this podcast are going through break ups. Now, you mentioned to me you had a friend break up. Do you want to maybe elaborate on that a little bit? So, we can further relate to the listener here?

Yeah, so, I was single for a long time. Like pardon me, about almost 15 years. I’ve been a relationship now with boyfriend for, it will probably two years in February. And–

Congrats!

Thank you! But yeah, so for about 15 years, I was single and a lot of that is a–when I look back, I totally have that co dependent personally in me. I know that and that’s one reason I’ve decided to become a therapist because I said, I need to get paid when people want to dump their s**t on me and help me fix them up. I’m sorry. That’s a cuss word! Sorry!

No, no. That’s alright.

And uh-yeah, I got to try to make it more a mental switch of –because I was that person that everybody always talked to but I found, I’ve gotten like  a lot of–kind of codependent friendships. That’s been a pattern for me and something I have been trying to break and I think within the last 5 years, I’ve been better at that. And this last one was just a friend, a guy, another gay guy and there’s nothing romantic or anything between us but we just–we actually met volunteering for that Trevor project. 12:45. We became best friends. There’s a group of us and he was a film maker and really interested in film making and I was you know–I was interested in doing coaching stuff and stuff like that and I was at that time, working on my therapy stuff and doing my Master’s but you got to get a lot free hours like 3000 hours for free, you get paid doing therapy or you don’t get paid doing therapy.

So, I was basically doing that and he just needed help producing like a short film and I said, “Ok sure! I’ll help you.” Just because I had a little bit of extra time and it kind of started blossoming to like this working relationship and so were becoming best friends for probably about 4 years–5 years and we’re in a working relationship for about 3 of those. And you know everything was going fine but then I realized that–not to talk too much about him because I want to respect his privacy but you know–it’s just–it was one of those things where our work was so–it just–it was ruining the friendship. I don’t really know if it was–actually when I say that, I don’t know if it was ruining the friendship. It was more of–when I look back on that friendship, Maya Angelou says that quote, I’m going to totally mess it up.

But there’s a quote that basically she paraphrases where she says, because I’m not Maya Angelou. But basically that people tell who you they are the first time they meet them and believe them and I think with him like, he told me very up front the type of person he was and I don’t mean this in a bad way. I just–he’s a great guy but I mean the type of person he was, how he lives his life, what is his truth. Kind of what is authenticity to him and how he wants to react with people and interact with people. He told me that pretty much within like the first month. I think there was that part of me that like, just like, wanted like a best friend and the co dependent part of me that was like, “Awww… It’s cool! That’s fine!” And I kind of compromised a bit of myself and he ended up being that friend that during our friendship would always tell me, “Other people are walking on you.Stand up for yourself and blah blah blah.” It was really helpful and then I think what happened is that, I started taking his advice which was great advice so much. I started–at times when I felt like I was being walked over by him, I started standing up to him.

And it really, and I’m sure there’s more fault on my end too that I just don’t see it because it was me. No. But that– No but–so, just started the breakdown of the friendship and it just ended you know, where he’s told me he said wanted–he thought he needed to take a break in the friendship and I said–but keep working, and I said, Well, you know,– before we started working together, I remember saying to him, I said, “You know, at any time that this affects the friendship, I think we both need to agree that the friendship comes first and then we’ll put out all the work stuff because the friendship is way more important than that.” Kind of made that promise.

So, he prioritized work over the friendship?

Yeah, and when I said that. When I said that whole thing that we’re going to take friendship first, work second. I realized when I look on it, he never agreed to that and said, “Yeah, me too.” He just kind of nodded his head and again, I believe, what I wanted to hear, instead of what was said in front of me and because he never lied to me. He was very authentic about who he was but I really lied to myself.

Yeah, I feel like a lot of people listening to this could definitely relate because they’re at this stage when they’ve just got through a break up and then people who come to my website, –Ah, you’re cough’s contagious.

Sorry! I thought I muted it.

Well, the people who come to my website, they’re kind of at this cross roads where they’re trying to decide whether or not to get over their ex or get their ex back and then a lot of times, it takes that introspective person to really look back and see things with some perspective a little bit.

But I’m really kind of interested at your take, as you are a therapist/clinical psychologist. What do you think someone would do generally when they’re at this cross roads? Should you ever try to get an ex back or should you just simply try to move on?

You know, it’s –there’s–I have two answers that came to my head you know. And I’m going to say this because I feel like people have this but the ego in me was like, “Forget them. Move on. Be you’re on person.” So, there is that part of me that wants to just kind of write people off and but then there’s that other part of me, like and that where people make mistakes. And so, I think it’s about, and one thing that I looked back on this with my friend, why I knew it was kind of over is that, I remember, when he said, “You know, I wanted to just kind of focus on work.” Actually, like at that point, kind of putting myself out there that I’m open and willing to have a conversation about this. That’s kind of how I said it, left it. I was like I’m open and willing  to have a conversation about this. And then, I realized like about like 3 or 4 months, and he didn’t, he wan’t ever going to talk to me again about that. And then that was a good thing. I was so happy that I didn’t close the door, because I was open to working on it, and I went, “Oh, he doesn’t want to work on this.”

So, this isn’t as important to him as it was to me. It made me sad but then in another way, it kind of gave me this freedom of like, you know, in kind of that whole adage of, “They’re just not that into you.” And he wasn’t that into me as a friend as I was for him. So, I think where people– I don’t think there’s –it’s a complex thing. As far as asking an ex back, I think that it’s more about, are you–have you broken up because–there’s so many reasons you break up but is it–How are you being treated? Because you can still– I know a lot of people that break up and people are kind to one another. That’s a huge thing that I say, well, boyfriend and I talk about our relationship. We always try to be kind at one another.

We get mad at each other, we get upset and I do thing that there is–if you’re in a break up right now, and if the person is being malicious or if they’re being vindictive, they’re trying to get your goat, I don’t know if that’s a person you need to get back together with. But if it’s a kind break up– I think  it’s more about not getting back together in a relationship but more about is there anything salvageable as a friendship? Because there are people that have been in this too where you  have breakups and you’re still friends because you still have respect for one another and a kindness for one another because I do think that more people are good people than more people are jerks. I don’t know. Did that answer the question or no?

Pretty much, really, really well. In fact, it made me think of something because I feel like a lot of the people come to my website, are not going through kind break ups. Some are, obviously we have a lot of people coming to the website, listening to the podcast that are going through pretty mutual break ups, I would say but most of the time they’re not. So, can you give me some examples of a break up maybe that you would try to get back with the person? What would that look like?

You know, I think that–and a lot of people are probably going to bristle when I say this but I think a lot of times–

Brace yourselves people!

I know! I think one example potentially of getting back together or when somebody cheats with somebody else, then I know that seems kind of–for a lot of people that’s the ultimate sin. That’s not to me because I think attraction to other people is normal. I’m not one of those people that thinks everybody should be in an open relationship. Although, that’s cool if you want but I don’t want it. I’m not wired that way.

Yeah, I get it.

But I know a lot of people that are. Gays stray which is shocking to me. I remember thinking, “Wow, a lot of stray people are into this. No. I can’t do it.” But I do know a lot of people that another person has either emotionally or physically cheated on one another and then they end up having–a lot of times 21:05 but they end up having this conversations about why the person cheated and a lot of times, it wasn’t even about they were attracted to that person. It’s that they were feeling either not loved or not attended to or not by the person they’re in a relationship with and what they really want and still want is that love and that validation through the person they were with for so many years. And so the whole, the aspect of cheating was really just, it was a symptom. It was like a cough when you have the flu. It’s not really about the sickness.

A cough is just a symptom of that and if people can kind of wrap their heads around that and actually have  a conversation about why did this happen and what can we do that would–you were looking for closeness and you looked for it with her or with him and is there is something that we could do and repair to bring that type of closeness back? And I know several couples, counseled a few that have gone through this break up period and then come back and they were actually a much stronger couple.

And even-I remember one –a couple client I had where the man had cheated and came back and then the woman, she took him back and they talked about it and they were a client for a while but they came back and I remember a year later she said, “I”m so glad that happened because that really made me see him for who he is instead of who I wanted him to be.” And when she said that, like it brought tears to my eyes that she could have–I mean talk about unconditional love that you can still truly love somebody and I’m not saying that you need–there’s a difference between somebody who’s like you know cheating on you 10 times and then–

Yeah, yeah. That’s a bit of problem but yeah.

So, I think that’s something I found and I will say this, just be in a couple’s therapy. For couples that are listening there, the biggest problem with people going to couples therapy is that they often go when it’s too late. So, I will say, anybody who’s thinking about that if you’re in a relationship right now and you’re–even if you’re not necessarily having problems and you just want to–a got a friend who does a part of the social work podcast and he and his wife, they go to therapy and they’re not even in like a bad time.

He’s like, I just want our therapist to know what our relationship looks like when things are going great. So, that way when it’s not going great, we kind of just check in and then we know that that she could have a kind of an idea of where we are. It’s a little bit of that where people–you know I’ve had–most of the couples, I would say, honestly, like 75% they come to me, they’ve already broken up and they were already done.

They really just want to come to me because one of them or both of them want me to tell them that that person was right. So, that’s a big tip that I can give. If you are in that, seek it out sooner than later. Don’t wait too late for that.

Now, I’m interested, the people, the couple specifically that came to you that were already broken up, what percentage would you say, just generally I know it’s kind of difficult to nail down 15, 3, 2%, ended up getting back together?

That’s actually the exact amount I was thinking.

I am genius! Bow to me!

Laughs! You are! You are! Now, I would say, honestly about 15-20%.

I was actually pretty accurate.

Yeah, yeah, you were. End up staying together. There’s probably a more realistic statistic to get for that but it’s not great because again, people come when it’s so late in the game. Now the good thing about that which you know–because I’m a narrative therapist.

So, we look at the life through–I look at the life through a story metaphor a lot of times and meaning so, which is can be mind blowing to some couples is that you know, –we definitely look at the client, the couple as two individual people and their coupleness, their relationship is just an aspect of who they are. It’s not their identity.

That’s big for a lot of people and I will say not to make over generalize but in my space, especially that resonates changes a lot for women because I think a lot of women put their identity and self worth as well, “I am the wife of this man or I am the girlfriend of this woman.” or whatever and they really put –that is who they are and so and that–again that can bring up codependency. That can bring up not feeling like you’re achieving your own personal goals because it’s all about him or all about her. There’s a really wonderful couple’s therapist who wrote a book called The Passionate Marriage. His last name is Schnarch. That’ an unfortunate. 26:06

That’s so schnarchy.

That’s so schnarchy yeah but he’s kind of like one of the world’s most premiere couple’s therapist and he talks about this thing called individuation in the relationship and how it is so important to have this, your individual goals, your individual growth, your individual things that make you happy that are just for you and keeping those in the relationship and also keeping them separate at the same time.

But anyway so, what we talk with narrative therapy, I think when I talk about their relationship is an aspect like, 26:43 story that well sometimes the characters of anger or fear or doubt or loneliness often write stories of our chapters of our life. And it’s not necessarily this story we want to write. So, what about either hope, or what about connection or what about–what are other kind of characters in our lives that ring a complexity to our story where it’s not bad or good because again, I think a lot of people do that with their relationship. It’s that it’s–that’s somebody bad or good. It’s not. It’s all grey.

Yeah, I really like the idea, the Schnarchy idea. Basically having something individual to you because I feel like, the codependency happens in a lot of relationships where your identity essentially becomes like you said, this person. You are this person’s husband, you are this person’s wife, girlfriend, boyfriend, whatever.

I think a lot of people, we live in a busy day and age right? How–a couple of questions here: how does someone have something–I’m thinking of actually my wife for example. She is, we have a 1 year old daughter and her identity is this daughter and she watches our daughter most of the day. I work most of the day. How could she find the time to have something maybe individualized for her?

Because I think like time is kind of a difficult thing especially when you’re busy all the time. She’s running around the house. You know I help. I do the best I can. One of us has to work. I mean she helps me work. How do you find time in today’s day and age?

You know, it’s–you hit on I think the most personal and hardest relationship, especially for women. For some men that too you know, I know a lot of single dads, actually several single dads but it is being a parent. Especially, I think, let’s just kind of say that not to generalize but I think there are some truth and some generalizations that that is true.

That women, especially moms because-are wrapped a lot of their identity in being a mom. And I’ve gotten a lot of–because with my podcast, my podcast is an advice podcast. So, instead of like Dear Abby, that’s why I call it Dear Matty and so, a lot of people that 29:16 that’s in emails are–I mean most of my listeners are moms. And so, it is this, how do I tease out this identity, especially when you have a 1 year old and I think a lot of is recognizing that there is want for you to have an individual need and also know that you don’t have time for it but recognizing that there is the want.

Like so, I would say like, let’s say if your wife and she was talking to me as therapist or just whatever. I just came over your house and we are having a glass of wine. We’ll maybe she wasn’t having wine, she’s breast feeding.

No, no. She uhm–the breast feeding is gone.

Oh ok. So, we’re having wine sure.

Wine is a plenty.

I’m not having beer but anyways and she says she’s like, “I don’t have time for this.” and I would just say, no. Just the fact that she wants to have something of her own or to build something. I think just acknowledge how great that is because a lot of women particularly, don’t even have the idea to be an individual in the relationship with their husband and with their children. It’s all about them.

And I think also though, it is sitting down with you and having  a conversation with her. Yeah, it might not be a whole night or a whole day but just, even if it’s, she says like, “Honey, I really–can you just watch the baby for two hours and I want to watch a movie that I love by myself or I want to like do a craft project or I want to like go work out or I want to watch a sports–” Even that, I say that–my friend, Don McCoy, who’s a–her website: Donspiration.com.

She’s really about women empowerment and everything and she always says to me that, everybody needs a little win. And it’s often those little wins that make us feel like we have a big win. And so for this, I would say, it’s like–where’s the little win where we could just grab a little bit of time and it might only be like, 20 minutes because that’s all you have but where’s the time where your husband or your–somebody else in your life could do that. And your wife’s lucky that she has you because there are a lot of single parents that–

I want to say. I cannot even imagine being a single parent. It seems like the most difficult thing in the world to me but getting off topic here. The reason I’m kind of hanging on this individualized thing is because applying it to a different thing here. Someone going through a break up who wants to get their ex back becomes a little obsessive sometimes.

They become codependent on the relationship and sometimes really the best way for them to A) get their back, B) move on from their ex, is to have this individual things that they do for themselves and not for their ex. So, I think it’s like a really important–

Amen! Amen!

Yeah, it’s a really important thing that you bring up here and something that I find the people I’ve worked with, struggle with the most because they want their ex back so, much that they don’t really understand that sometimes you have to do something for you as opposed to him or her to get him back.

And a lot of people I worked with, I’ll tell them to do things and a lot of it is the individualized things you’re talking about here and it’s only after that they do those things that they realize and they get the perspective that they don’t want their ex back. Especially when it’s a really toxic thing. It’s difficult to get someone to go down that path I’ve found because when they’re so stuck on their ex and they want to get their ex back and everything. It’s difficult to say, “Hey, step back. Take some time for yourself.

Don’t think about him. Don’t think about her.” They kind of just nod their head and do the exact opposite. So, it’s not just me saying, it’s Matt and Schnarchy.

For you listeners, I’m sitting here like a bobble head. I’m agreeing with you so much. Because I’ve had so–honestly, I would say a lot, majority of my individual clients, a lot of them come to me because of a break up or because of–

or it’s some like, it’s a little different but even it’s a little more quite extreme but like I’ve had several lgbt clients that come to me that have had kind of like a family break up where they came out and their parents disowned them but it’s still that same adage of, you can only devote so much energy to this relationship whether your family member or a boyfriend or girlfriend until you have to cultivate your own happiness. I tell people that now, if you cannot find a way to be happy now, you’re not going to be happy later.

And so, and I can say that to anybody.  I forgot the famous guy who wrote that book who is Jewish and talked about being in the holocaust, like being in like freaking Auschwitz and talking about finding happiness in Auschwitz and I’m like if this person who is  a Jewish person being persecuted get–who’s in a concentration camp and they can find happiness.

Yeah, that is–

And you’re pissed off that you can’t go to–and a movie on Friday out with your boyfriend. Like get out of here but I agree with you, it’s really, really hard to get people to get out of their head to just, to not be so focused and a lot of that for me has been, it’s honestly, it’s sitting with them and because I really believe the client is the expert of their life.

So, I’m the type of therapist, if you came to me, I’m not going to say, “Well, you have mommy issues, daddy issues, you’re this, you’re that.” That’s more of like old school way of therapy and that’s great for some people. But I’m more of a post modern therapist. We’re more solution focused.

So, when people come in and they say, I want to talk about your solutions and actually I want to dissect what’s going well in your life and kind of figure out what are the components of your strength of any strengths or things that are going well because then we can use those strengths to attack a problem which is helpful in this situation because a lot of you who are focused on what they don’t have from that other person.

So, I actually will force them to try –I guess you could use the word, whether it’s perspective or a lot of entrepreneurs say the pivot. I kind of force them to look at things that are going well in their lives. Even the fact that like, what enabled them to make a decision to come to therapy? Was it for them selves or was it for the other person to try to tease that out.

And even if they’re like–so, some people oddly enough–I’ve had a client who came to me who didn’t like his day job but he was really good at it and it was actually flashing out that –he brought a lot of strengths to this job he didn’t care for and he realized that one of the reasons he didn’t like this job so much is that he was going to work just focused on the boyfriend that had just broken up with him 6 months before. It was totally like, it was the rose colored–he said an sh word that he called like sh colored glasses.

That’s when he realized he was wearing this glasses and kind of taking them to work and in other aspects of his life and kind of not seeing what he was bringing to the table for other people. And so that was a very–because it’s all about validation. When we’re broken up with somebody, there’s this feeling when we don’t feel validated as a person.

So, instead of seeking that in someone else, I’m giving 37:00 where are we finding validation in other parts of your life. So, if it’s not in this relationship and I say this to your listeners, if you’re wanting somebody back right now, what is it about that relationship that makes you feel like you are worthy to be on this planet. That you are a person of value?

Whatever that is, I just want to challenge you, are there other aspects of your life that you being there gotten that before or that you are getting now? And look at those, and give way to those because sometimes we 37:31 and say, they’re not that important.

When really, it’s kind of huge that you can show up to work and be a good employee or that you’re a great daughter to your mom. And you’re able to like have a great relationship with her. Those are of value.

Yeah, I think it completely ties to what you’re saying before, what your coleague or friend said before about the small wins. It’s essentially like, you’re looking at the small wins that you have already and using those to prop yourself up and maybe get some bare wins.

And someone going through a breakup, it’s a really emotional time and they’ve done studies and found that essentially the part of the brain that lights up, the part of the brain that becomes active when you go through breakups is the same part of the brain that becomes active when a drug addict is going through withdrawal.

So, you’re body’s all out of whack, you’re doing all sorts of things, you’re not really in your right mind. Sometimes, it’s focusing on the things you do have that can kind of give you some perspective. So, great advice Matt. Great advice. I must bow to you.

Thanks, that’s why working out– oh, no. You got it too. I’m just revealing what you have told me but that’s why working out is so good if you are in a break up because you–

Oh, you have no idea. I recommend that above all because it gets so–it i–and anytime that I’m super stressed, it can almost compound when I do not work out because working out really gets a lot of the energy out. It gets a lot of the stress out. It gets my mind off things.

If you’re looking at a whole mind body and whether people 38:59 I believe in God and the soul and things like that but–So, and I believe that all energetically–not believe, I know, scientifically, it’s proven that this is, when you work out, you’re releasing the serotonin, you’re releasing the endorphins and so, that are counteracting a lot of this components.

There’s a reason why, think about a lot of people that you know, that you go through a divorce or a break up that often do well at it, and 39:28 and think about, how many of them actually started working out and getting in better shape—

Most of them did. It’s like you go through the divorce and then all of a sudden, 20 lbs lighter. It’s really a fascinating thing to see.

And those are the people, a lot of times that do very statistically–those people do much better within their break up and I still 39:51 whether somebody’s coming from depression. I still have two things that I recommend a lot, working out and then for somebody too that’s obsessed with somebody else right now in a break up, I recommend volunteering.

I think, if you can `have, even if it’s an hour or two hours a week, seeing other people that–because a lot of times you–that’s why I love group therapy, actually more than individual therapy. I love group therapy and things like that because people feel like they’re alone, they feel like they’re isolated by their problem and then they see that other people either have similar problems and that feels normal to them or they see other people going through stuff and they kind of–it’s like a, like  a little slap to them, of like a wake up slap of “Oh.”

Like I was saying, we’re stressed out about this but you know, I remember going through my own problems, and then you know, I’ve worked for–I now ran a–one of the thing I ran was a crystal meth recovery group and I’ve never been addicted to crystal meth or anything likely.

That’s just breaking bad, that’s all.

Yeah, I mean–I’m addicted to maybe like chocolate. I like oreos.

Halloween just came up. Oh my god.

I know`, the shame I feel right now. But still–but no, it’s definitely is– I really try to just–you said chocolate–41:10 and now I forgot what I was saying.

It’s all good man. It’s all good. The group therapy you were talking about.

Oh, yeah, yeah. That’s huge. If you can volunteer, that’s just–it’s such a beautiful thing. A) You’re giving yourself but it really is being of service in some way is never going to–if that’s going to help your own self validation as well and kind of get you out of your–what I say to clients, I say, “You need to get out of your story. You’re so wrapped up in this story of being–so, let’s introduce a new character. So, let’s volunteer.” And but—or instead I’ll say, “Let’s not introduce a new character of a new boyfriend or a new girlfriend.” It’s your story not the–

And I also kind of wanted to touch a little bit on the working out thing because I recommend that too. I really highly recommend that to everyone that I basically have given advice to. But every once in a while, I try to–do when somebody’s is going through a break up.

They don’t–they’re aren’t always in the right mind and everything they do is to get their ex back. Especially the people who come to my website and that’s 42:16 the best and I’ve researched.

I know exactly what it takes to work, there’s no guarantees obviosly but working out is an essential part of the break up process and handling it correctly but the way I have to sell it to people is, you’ll look good, you’ll feel good but every once in a while, I’ll get that woman who comes in and starts cracking the whip on me. Saying something like, “Oh, you’re just one of those guys who’s you’re fat shaming or doing something like that.” But it’s not anything like that at all.

There are physical benefits to doing this and yes, obviously you’ll look better and if you’re a little overweight, you’re going to look better than, you’ll feel better about yourself but this–it’s not like we’re fat shaming anyone doing this.

Look, if you think that we’re fat shaming you right now, cancel our subscription because we don’t need your issues. Alright?

Exactly.

I think it’s–that’s they’re stuff and I think that that just somebody else. When somebody’s coming to you like that and I’ve had whether it’s about saying you’re fat shaming–they’re basically, they’re already self defeating the solution which can–I don’t get angry about that. I don’t that personal. I just go, “Oh, you’re not ready to move on, yet.

You’re just not ready to find healing yet. So, you need to stew in this.” And some people stew in those kind of things for years and then other people, they finally move on and the idea like it’s the whole prodding the horse to water thing. You can’t do that.

Yeah, you can’t make it drink.

You can’t.

Alright Matt. So, where can people find you? Obviously–

That’s it? This was that quick? Yeah, they can find me, hey listen to the podcast and–The dearmattieshow.com. You can find it on Itunes or Stitcher and it’s M-A-T-T-I-E, Mattie. So, dearmattieshow.com and that’s my website too, dearmattieshow.com. You can write in questions.

You can see his commercial reels too. It’s like all of the commercials he’s been in and he’s been in some huge commercials. Like blew me away, when I saw it. It was like, “I’ve seen that commercial.” Especially the one with the captain obvious. You know, you get locked out of your room.

That also encourages you to work out. When you play a character that 44:41

Ah yes!

And then you go like to a movie and they show that.  Like I’m going to see the avengers and then all of a sudden, I see my like jiggly butt in like 60–

And everyone saw the avengers too. So, you know it’s like playing around the entire–

Oh, yeah. I would be walking down the street and people would go, “It’s Wednesday Gary!” I’m like,–but yeah, so definitely–yeah, you could see all that and then-because I also have  a Youtube channel but again it’s all in my website, dearmattieshow.com but I do, I answer dear mattie questions on Youtube. I also do like some recaps of some shows.

What shows are you watching lately?

Well, it’s a terrible show. It’s terrible, speaking of — it’s called Finding Prince Charming and it’s like the new gay bachelor show–it’s a hot mess. It’s the worst show but I recap it with my friend and we have a good time. I will say Chris, for your listeners that my show–I’m also a stand up comedian. There’s a little bit of language on my show.

It’s all good.

But yeah, so dearmattieshow.com is where people can find all that kind of stuff and listen to podcast and all that good stuff.

Alright, thanks for visiting!

Oh, thank you so much for having me. I appreciated it.

Babye!