How To NOT Break The No Contact Rule With Glenn Livingston

It’s not often that I say this but this may actually be one of my favorite episodes that I have ever done.

And no, it’s not because I am talking about the no contact rule, AGAIN!

Let me give you some background so what I say will make sense.

Dr. Glenn Livingston is a superstar in the “Binge Eating” world.

(I promise this will make sense in a moment.)

In fact, this guy is so credentialed I was a little in awe while I was interviewing him,

  • He is a veteran psychologist
  • Long time CEO of a multi-million dollar consulting firm
  • Has been featured in Chicago Sun Times, CBS Radio, New York Times
  • And is the author of Never Binge Again

Now, originally I had planned to make this interview all about the poor eating habits that I have seen women adopt after a breakup.

However, after Glenn and I got to talking something interesting began to happen. Instead of only focusing on binge eating we turned our attention to the no contact rule.

Specifically the issues that people have when it comes to NOT contacting their exes.

As it turns out, the technique that Glenn created to prevent people from binge eating is a perfect fit to stop people from breaking the no contact rule.

Now, I have written a massive book on this topic, “The No Contact Rule Book”, so feel free to check it out!

Of course, that’s not even the coolest part about what I want to share with you today.

Nope, the coolest part is the fact that I actually convinced Glenn to give you his book FOR FREE.

Now, bear in mind that this is a book for binge eating. However, almost everything in it can be in some way, shape or form be applied to the no contact rule.

Get His Book For Free Here

Oh, and if you think this isn’t something that is worth your time to read you might want to rethink that because I was so impressed with Glenn’s technique that I am going to modify it and add it to my overall core strategy when it comes to the no contact rule.

Check out our interview below,

Watch Glenn Teach His Technique To Me

What We Talk About In This Episode

  • Glenn’s Personal Struggles With Binge Eating
  • How He Kicked “The Binge Habit”
  • How His Technique For Binge Eating Can Be Applied To The No Contact Rule
  • Fighting Your Inner Pig
  • And Much More

Important Links Mentioned In This Episode

Interview Transcript

  • Alright we’re live. Ok, so, I’ll just begin and get this thing started. 


    Alright so today we Dr. Glenn Livingston. Now, Glenn is kind of an interesting guy because he’s a veteran psychologist, been a long time CEO of a multi-million dollar consulting firm. He’s been featured on The Chicago Sun Times, CBS Radio, New York Times but what I really brought him on the show to talk about is his book: “Never Binge Again”. 


    Now, Glenn,  I want to take a moment to welcome you to the show. I don’t think we’ve ever had such a credentialed person ever on the show before. So, welcome!

  • I hope that that is a– I hope that you’re going to feel as positive towards me at the end this show as you do in the beginning. Because what I have to say is not really 0:48  necessarily say but–

  • Oh, it’s perfect!

  • I’m delighted to be here. I’m delighted to be here.

  • Oh we’re so happy to have you here and we talked on the phone before we got the interview all set up and you told me a little bit of your story about how you kind of got into the binge eating. I mean you’re a psychologist. You’re a licensed psychologist and so, I guess, why don’t you give me like a little background on what got you in to the binge eating or what fascinates you about this topic so much.

  • So, let me just say that as a little disclaimer, that when I talk about Never Binge Again and my personal story and the works that I do, it’s outside of the standards of care of my license. So, I do it as a coach and an educator. So, that I’m really free to say what I think because I don’t necessarily agree with everything that my profession is doing with regards to binge eating. So, with that said and if we agree on that then what you should know is that I got a personally very painful story about binge eating. 


    As an adolescent and even as a young child. I had what you would could exercised bulimia. What that means is that I don’t stick my finger down my throat. I never stuck my finger down my throat at that time but I really like to eat. And I discovered because I’m 6’4″ and I was kind of muscular, still am. That if I worked out a lot–

  • Laughs

  • Yeah, there you go! If I worked out a lot, that I could stay thin and I could as much as I want to. And that worked for me when I was exercising  2 or 3 hours a day during my adolescence and college years but I got married shortly after college and a lot more responsibilities. Graduate school was a lot harder than college was. I started to see patients. I started to have to make a big commute and I just didn’t have the time to exercise 2 or 3 hours a day. Unfortunately, I kept eating. I find it really hard to stop eating as a matter of fact with the you know–with the commute and all the busy schedule. I actually end up eating worse than I did before because I was always looking for something fast. 

  • Fast food? Right. So simple, you know Mcdonald’s is right there. 

  • It’s right there when you’re driving 2 hours from longer 3:15everyday. And I couldn’t stop and I couldn’t stop thinking about food and I would eat sitting and working with patients who were –I mean someone who were talking to me about wanting to kill themselves. And I was sitting and thinking, “When can I get the next pizza?” you know, when can I go to the deli and dislodge my jaw and empty most of the sandwiches in through it. And so that was a real character conflict for me because I come from a family of 17 psychologists and psychotherapists and social workers and I really –what’s most meaningful to me in life is helping people. It’s always been what’s most meaningful and I really made a commitment to be the best doctor that I could be.

    And so, the fact that I found myself, not able to be present was very disturbing but because I had been brought with all this psychological perspective. You know how, sometimes if you’ve got a hammer, everything looks like a nail. I went to psychologists and psychiatrists and I went over as anonymous and I went to all of these traditionally psychological programs thinking that the problem that I had was like a hole in my soul. Like if I could figure out how to nurture my inner wounded child well enough then I wouldn’t have to eat like this anymore. And I actually self funded a study with 40,000 people. I shouldn’t mention that the consulting part of my career comes because I don’t have kids and I never commuted except for graduate school but I always worked from home.

    So, I had a lot of time to work and so, I was able to do a lot of consulting with big companies and it was mostly research based. I would 5:09 . I know how to run big studies 5:12 how to do it relatively, expensively and say well, I can’t find the research that tells me why I can’t stop eating, why don’t I make it? And long story short, none of it really worked for it. I discovered that, there is a very strong co-relation between particular food problems and people’s upbringing and socio-economic status and things like that and it was very interesting. I actually got a lot of press because of it. So, for example, I figured out that, there is a relationship between people who were feeling lonely, isolated and unloved and a craving for chocolate.


  • So, a lot of the listeners there going through break ups, probably craving chocolate right?

  • Yes, particularly women. I talked to a lot of women that crave chocolate during the break up

  • Really interesting.

  • See, it is interesting and it’s also interesting that that’s what you chose to speak because it’s good conversation and I think that it’s worth while to explore and I happen to be a chocolate maniac and I figured out through my psychological exploration that–Well, I kind of grew up during the vietnam era and my dad was in the army and my mom was really frightened a lot when I was a little boy. And she just couldn’t be present and she would give me chocolate instead of a hug.

    And so, if I would go crying to her sometimes, she would point to the refrigerator and there would be a big bottle of Bosco which is this chocolate syrup and she kept it on the bottom shelf so I could reach it  because I wasn’t 6″4′ back then. And I learned to go for chocolate instead of hugs and so that’s the perfect kind of story that makes sense with the findings we found. And I thought at that point that that was the solution. So, now we found out that someone who’s craving chocolate, we say, “In what way are you feeling isolated and lets’ figure out how to build you a sense of community. And let’s figure out how can you love yourself and how can you find more love in your life.”

    But it turns out, there is this voice inside of me and this voice inside of people that in that to say, was the same analogy, they would say, “Glenn, you know what, you’re right. Your mom didn’t you love you enough and it’s not her fault but it left you with this big giant hole and until you figure out how to fill all holes that leave you feeling lonely and isolated, we’re just going to have to keep going on this big giant, hairy binges.Now, yippy! Let’s do that!” And, long story short, it turns out that that it’s that voice that’s much more of the problem than the fact that my–


  • Your mom–

  • –mom–Yeah, yeah. And by the way, I absolutely adore my mom and she knows I talk about this. So, mom I love you! I’m sorry but it’s–

  • She’s not going to be listening unless she’s going through a break up.

  • She’s not. Hopefully she’s not!

  • Hopefully not.

  • I just did by the way. But I doubt it, she’s not.

  • Well, I’m sorry to hear that.

  • Thank you.

  • You came to the right place! No, I’m just kidding!

  • Yeah, why don’t you help me instead?

  • Glenn, Dr. Glenn, here’s what laughs–

  • No, that’s cool.. but since–so I see– where were we?

  • Ah chocolate and you found the voice of the head was really the big problem here.

  • Yeah, and I found that for all of the other correlations with food and personality problems–emotional of sense. I found that everybody else seem to have  a similar voice. So, you know people who crave salty, starchy snacks tend to be going through a lot of stress at work. And they would say, “Well, until I could figure out how to solve this work stress problem, I’m going to have to keep eating.” So, I didn’t really know what the solution was but think this was around the time that I was 9:20 stop working for me and I was reading alternative approaches to addiction. I came across this guy named, Jack Trimpey, who wrote a book called Rational Recovery. And the essence of his attitude– I think people should read it for themselves. It’s an extremely valuable paradigm shift.

    But the essence of his attitude was that, no we shouldn’t nurturing inner wounded and no, you don’t have to keep indulging your addiction until you figure out how you’re mama and your papa didn’t love you enough and you get enough love in your life. What you need to do is aggressively separate from this addictive part of themselve that throws up this crazy voices and rationalizations. And you need to learn not to nurture an inner wounded child but to develop a sense of disgust and contempt for that part of you that is ruining everything. And this was just like a radical thing to say whereas–10:25 you’re paralyzed over food and you can’t do it by yourself and you’re going to have to dependent on all this other people. This guy was saying–

  • Self-reliance.

  • Exactly, the opposite is true. It’s about freedom and responsibility and empowerment and then–ok, so the more that there’s– did you want to ask something Chris? I’m sorry.

  • I was just thinking, did you find that the binge eating, like in your studies that you did, did you find that breakups was a really big cause for binge eating because I’ve seen it where a heartbreak and all that type of stuff can cause people to just binge eat. Like the voice in the head–that’s a perfect thing to say because I had the same voice. When things don’t go wrong, I’m thinking, “Oh man, Mcdonald’s sounds really good right about now.”

  • Right. “I’m unlovable, I’m never going to find the man of my life. I’m never going to have true love but at least there’s this one good thing I can do. There’s at least this one pleasurable thing I can do which is, chocolate or ice cream or–“

  • Mcflurry, Mcdonalds!Hmm! Sounds good right now!

  • Is that you’re thing now?

  • Yeah, it’s my thing!

  • Ok.

  • No, but I can really connect with your story about you know, your early years. You rationalized it, like, “Well, if I work out really hard, I won’t gain weight.” And the reason I can really connect with that is because I think the same exact thoughts. And I imagined this really easy for someone going through a break up to have the same exact thoughts. “Like, maybe it’s easier just to binge eat instead of facing the problem.” Now, I’m really interested to hear what–you found this guy who basically said the opposite of what the–what was it? Overeaters anonymous was saying. So, what was kind of his magic formula here?

  • Well, so he works largely with the black and white addictions:drugs and alcohol, smoking and things you can give up as opposed to food which–

  • can’t give up. You have to have that to live.

  • you got to take the Lion out of the cage and walk it around the block a couple of times right?  And I make that distinction because there’s a whole bunch of changes and modifications and illusions that I had to go through to make this work for food. And what I don’t want to happen is for people who are listening who happen to have troubles with alcohol or cigarettes or some other black and white addiction. I would much rather that they worked with Jack Trimpey’s work than mine. So, I just want to make that clear.

  • I’ll link to him and his book in the show notes of this episode. So, anyone listening who’s interested or going through the struggles can find the help that they need.

  • Yup, so what um–

  • Magic formula Jack Trimpey–

  • Right. So, what he said was that you really need to have clarity about what you’re rule is. So, that you can hear–he doesn’t let anybody else use his words. So,I’m going to call it The Lizard Brain. So, that you can hear The Lizard Brain throw forth those crazy rationalizations to direct. So, he would say, you know when you say, “I will never drink again.” Then you know, that any voice whatsoever in your head that gives yo any reason to have alcohol now or in the future, that that’s not you. That’s going to be this thing in your head. That’s your enemy.And so, rather than make it your inner wounded child, it’s your enemy. And what you’re also pointed out was that neurologically, we’re wired to win this game because the lizard brain which is the–

  • enemy

  • That’s the enemy. The lizard brain works–when it sees something in it’s environment, it evaluates it on a very, very primitive level. It says, “Should I kill it? Should I mate with it or should I eat it?” And the higher brain, the neo-cortex–the in some senses the mammalian brain. That’s where all of our goals and aspirations–that’s where love is.  That’s where connection to other people is and the thing of it is though, is that those functions 15:05 which means that they’re superior and they can regulate and modulate the lizard brain. So, even though it feels like this you know, mate, kill or eat thing takes over and that we disappear. We actually have this whole mass of neurons and you know brain structures that’s taken millions of years to evolve to make us human and control it. So, physiologically, what they’re saying in overeaters anonymous, that you know, that we’re powerless over our addiction. It’s just really not true. That’s actually good news.

  • Very, yeah.

  • So, but on 15:44 basis he said, “Separate yourself from your inner enemy. Make a really clear statement. So, you can hear whatever your enemy says. And then ignore then ignore the other enemy forever.” And it says really simple–let me tell you how I translated that to food and how it works for me.

    I decided that my inner enemy was going to be my pig. A lot of women don’t like that. A lot of women prefer to call it their B-I-T-C-H or their inner 16:13 –call it whatever you want. I call it my pig and I distinguish that from the very sweet animals that actually exist in the world. Now, I think pigs should be treated well and hugged and kissed, everything like that but not my inner pig.

    My inner pig deserves nothing but my contempt. And I decided that the–to start off, I was going to make a clear rule that said I was never going to have chocolate again. I don’t recommend that everybody never has chocolate again. I think you can make conditional rules. Let’s say, “I’ll never have chocolate during the week again. I’ll only have chocolate on social occasions.” You’re full plan is entirely up to you. I’m not going to tell you how to eat. I’m just going to help you stick to it. But for me, never is a lot easier than sometimes. I’ve had experiment with all kinds of other ways and my sister can take out two little squares of chocolate and 17:04 the rest of the bar back up and put it back on your purse and say, “Oh, I”m out of control with chocolate.” And I think, “Yeah, right.” Because I would have 5 bars.

    But for me never is a lot easier than sometimes. So, that was the clarity of the definition. And then I decided that any voice that I heard in my head which said that I should have chocolates for any reasons whatsoever was pig squeal. So, for example, I remember, as I was approaching Starbucks, counter 2, pay for my tea, there’s a big, hairy chocolate probably looking at me and the closer I got, the better it started looking until I heard my pig say, “You know Glenn, you’re supposed to eat a lot of vegetables right?” And this is–chocolates comes from cocoa beans and cocoa beans grow on a plant, therefore-

  • Wow! That’s an interesting rationalization. I’m fascinated how you got there. Because I would just thought,”Man, that looks really good. I want that.” But you really rationalized it like, “Oh, it’s technically a vegetable right? Because it grows on a plant.” That’s really fascinating.

  • That’s how my pig works. That’s how my inner pig works and so I call that pig squeal.

  • Wow! Pig squeal, I like it.

  • That’s pig squeal and what it does is it makes the rationalizations disconnect and it provides you a kind of guttural jolt because at the moment of impulse, that lizard brain takes over and we don’t have access to our rational brains. We don’t have access to the part of us that can remember that well you know–but chocolate has all this stimulants in it and you can’t really afford the sugar, you can’t really afford–We don’t necessarily have access to it.

    What’s happening in our brain at that time is, is the lizard brain is saying, “Eat, mate, kill” right? “Eat, mate, kill. You will do this. You will do this.” And we’re gone. It feels like we’re gone. We’re not really gone. We’re actually there and an interesting thing about talking to people about their over eating episodes or the binges, is that they can tell you, they can tell you who they bought the food from, how much they bought, how much you’ve cost. They remember taking the money out of the wallet. They remember how many chocolate bars they had. They remember what they had afterwards. They remember driving there. They remember driving back.

    So, it’s like there’s a video camera recording it the whole time. So, we were there. We were absolutely there but at the moment, you just don’t have access to that cognitive self. And so what you really need is this guttural, primitive reaction that you programmed to yourself to feel disgusted and that buys you the microseconds to jump back into your right mind and say no. That’s how it works.


  • So, in your example here of walking up the Starbucks counter, and you rationalizing it, what was the inner dialogue like for basically making yourself disgusted with the chocolate and basically saying, “No, I shouldn’t have that.” I’m just like eager to know, what was the inner dialogue inside your head like?

  • It’s like, “Woah! Wait a minute. That’s pig squeal! I don’t listen to farm animals. I don’t let farm animals tell me what to do.”

  • Ok.

  • It’s not what you expect a sophisticated psychologist to be talking about.

  • Whatever works right?I think really the important–from what I’m gathering her from listening to your process, really what’s important is kind of the rule that you make for yourself right? So, you said, what was it? No chocolate ever again right?

  • Yeah.

  • So, basically anything that came up against that rule, after you had that rule placed, it’s simply a function of making yourself kind of beat back the enemy and you’re way of doing that is the pig squeal type thing.

  • except here’s the thing, it doesn’t require much force as you think it does.

  • Ok.

  • This is just–it’s not any stronger than your testicles are. You know, we men have all types of urges and we can get in a lot of trouble if we don’t control and so we learn to control them. I mean Chris you don’t grab women and kiss them on the bus do you ?


  • No. I’m not Donald Trump.

  • You’re right! Don’t do that absolutely!

  • I probably just lost half my viewership now. I’m just kidding!

  • I know, they always say, the marketers not to talk about 21:41 politics

  • No politics and I always stick to that but I just couldn’t resist myself.

  • I’m totally with you. So, I”ll lose half my audience too! My mom actually used to sit with him in a box at forest hills. We should probably not go down this road.

  • No. Ok, binge eating, binge eating!

  • Binge eating, binge eating! So, the point was that you’re not Donald Trump. You don’t have a problem controlling urges that are generated by your testicles. It’s just an organ of the body. You are superior to the organs of your body.


  • Ah, very, very good analogy. Now, I wonder if there’s a better analogy we can use for women because women necessarily don’t have the same type of urges that maybe a man has.

  • Well, yeah. Sorry. I am sorry.

  • If you don’t have one, that’s completely fine but I guess what Glenn’s trying to say here is, maybe you put it best but it’s just an organ of the body. It doesn’t necessarily control what you do right?

  • It’s kind of like, if you feel like going number 2. It’s just physical urge. And you can control exactly how it comes out or where that comes out.

  • That’s true! Donald trump and–ok, nevermind.

  • We are just—`

  • We went off into the weeds. Much like Trump’s debate. No, I’m just kidding!

  • I don’t know if I’m winning over near the women.

  • You’re cracking me up. You won me over!

  • So, it doesn’t require a tremendous amount of force. As a matter, you can really just dismiss. Once you recognize it, you don’t have to argue with it. You don’t have to exert a lot of mental force or energy. You can really just dismiss it. I mean you wouldn’t argue with your number 2 right? You wouldn’t sit and argue with that. You would just say like, “That’s not an option now. It’s just not an option. So, that’s not what we’re doing.” So, it’s like that. It’s actually a key point because–it’s kind of like if you were dealing with a serial killer. Do you remember the movie–I forgot the name of the movie. It was from Hannibal Lecter’s

  • 24:22

  • Were Jody Foster is warned that when she goes to interview the serial killer, that don’t let him into her head.

  • Oh yeah.

  • He was locked up. He was in chain. He had this mask on so he couldn’t bite people and they warned her that the way he would try to over power her was by engaging her in a dialogue and getting into her head. And the safest thing to do with Hannibal Lecter, is to just not engage. Once you recognize that this is Hannibal Lecter talking, don’t have the conversation. It doesn’t matter if your pig got a degree from Harvard and you know has the most intellectually stimulating brilliant argument for why you should do this or why you should do that. You know what it’s motives are.

    It doesn’t matter if it’s smarter than you. It doesn’t matter if it’s got a million dollar research study behind it. The only good that can come from arguing it is, from engaging it is, letting it in and letting it do it do it’s thing, get to even the chance to do it’s thing. If you think about it with a serial killer and you treat it with that level of contempt then, you just ignore it. You don’t engage in that conversation.

  • And this is what worked for you, after trying pretty much everything there was to try.

  • It really did. It really did. No, it wasn’t perfect immediately. I had to learn some subtleties of it  and it’s kind of important to try one rule before you try to put a whole food plan together. And Chris I had to teach myself to get up after I made mistakes ad there was kind of a conflict there at first because I was saying, “Well, if I’m never going to get chocolate again-” The pig would say, “Well, you just did.” And I had to be willing to say, “Well, now I’m never going to eat chocolate again.”

  • Not kind of beat yourself down for the fact that maybe you fell off the wagon a few times.

  • The purpose of self castigation after a binge is to allow you to binge more. It’s very difficult to continue binging if you refuse to yell yourself. The pig, if you make a mistake, the pig will say, “You cheated. You cheated. You cheated. Your silly food plan doesn’t mean anything. Let’s just go out and be happy fat people.” And I think for women who have just gone through a break up by they way, I think that there’s a temptation to say that since you’ll never find true love, the only really pleasurable that’s there for you in life is food and binging and you have to recognize that that’s the pig.

    You have to recognize that that is the enemy, that’s going to say, “That’s very tempting because it feels true at the moment. ” And I just got divorced, it feels true for me but I know that that’s my pig. I know that’s my–I’ve been very, very tempted to go back to chocolate. And I sure would take squealing over and over again but I just recognized it and ignored  and I say, “I’m just really, really sad. I have to go through this. I’m just really, really sad.”

  • Now, I’m really curious because you said that you did this method and you tested it on yourself which I really like a lot because a lot of people, you know, they give advice without actually putting it practice for themselves. What were some of the positive results that you’ve got out of implementing this?

  • Well, I mean, other than losing weight, I lost about 60 pounds.

  • 60 pounds! Seriously. Especially good for people–one of the things I advice on my website is–the worst thing you can do is, much like the serial killer analogy that you gave, is engage your ex in a dialogue because often times, they’re not ever open to talking to you. And so, I kind of structure my strategies for either getting over an ex or getting an ex back, really revolves around self improvement.

    And one of the ways, I’ve found and kind of one of the big reasons I wanted to bring you onto the show was the fact that a lot of people have this inner dialogue in their heads and they just kind of fall of the bandwagon. They gain a bunch of weight. So, it’s interesting, this is something you can actually use to prevent yourself maybe from worsening your own situation which is something I see a lot of.

    You know women–maybe they were kind of ok with their body image and their weight but they use the break up as an excuse to gain 20 lbs. or something. So, this can not only work for women who are going through a breakup and just don’t want to fall and slide even more but for women who also want to lose weight. But what are some of the other things that positively happen to you after you figure this thing out?


  • Chris, I just want to mention for your audience and then I will answer that.

  • Go for it.

  • You can use the same mental trick to stay away from your ex boyfriend.

  • Oh, I love it! Alright, let’s get into that.


  • So, you can say, “I will never talk to my ex again.” And then every little voice in your head that says, “Maybe I should call him. Maybe just, I need closure as a one last contact or we need to exchange our old clothes.” Any little thing. Maybe that’s your inner sucker.


  • Interesting. Yeah, it really correlates too because I know, they’ve done studies and found that there’s a link between the part of your brain that deals with addiction and also when you go through a break up. Like that’s the part of the brain that lights up and gets triggered. So, it’s like, for someone going through a breakup, it’s like going through a withdrawal. So, this is actually right on point with that addiction thing. What was his name? Jack Trimpage, Trimp?

  • Jack Trimpey.

  • Trimpey? Yeah, so, it’s right on point with what he’s saying and right on point with the binging. So, it’s really, really relevant to what everyone listening is going through?

  • And the other analogy which can take us back to food also is that, when you make your rules, you have to make them with clarity. I don’t know if you recommend that every person that go through a break up just goes through no contact.


  • I do actually.

  • You do 30:42

  • I do recommend that but you’ll be surprised at how many people do not do it and then come back later and telling you, “Oh, I wish I had done it.” So, but yeah I do recommend that for people.

  • I kind of move–I have to talk to my wife a little bit because of business reasons but I really moved dramatically in that direction a month or so ago and it’s amazing. I knew as a psychologist. I knew that was necessary but I just couldn’t do it and I had all this reasons for not doing it and then I did it and I feel much better. So, I really understand. The positives benefits are besides physical improvement and that comes up slowly by the way especially–

  • Yeah, it’s not like in a month you’re going to be looking like some fitness model if you’re way overweight but you know step by step. Every little bit helps.


  • And you don’t want to lose weight too quickly because that–it stimulates a physiological mechanism that makes you want to eat more. You know feast and famine. So, if you’re telling your body that you’re starving then–

  • Yeah, I’ve actually experienced that myself. I remember when I had my daughter, I would binge a lot. Just because I’ve never had been responsible for another human like this and didn’t know how to deal with it and I wasn’t getting any sleep and I didn’t want to cook. So, I just went out and got some quick fast food and I gained some weight. Now, I went on a diet but the diet was really extreme and I lost like 8 lbs in a week or something like that. And all I could think the entire time was, “Oh, I can’t wait until I can eat like Pizzahut again or something really, really bad.” And so ofcourse I binged in a day and gained like 5 lbs back. So, I can certainly connect with that.

  • The solution to binging is normal eatng. The solution to binging isn’t dieting.

  • Really interesting, really, really interesting.

  • On a practical basis, I ask people to aim–for me,  1 or 2 lbs of weight loss per week, not a lot more. Whatever your doctor tells you. Unless you’re in an emergency situation for your health that you need to lose it quicker but some of the other more important benefits where that obsession lifted. And you’ve ever been obsessed with over eating and you were like me and thinking about getting a pizza when you’re supposed to be concentrating on another person or you want to be more present for your partner or you just want to be like be out in nature and be in the moment and be mindful and present and experience what life has to offer.

    And for women going through a break up, what you really need to do is, you just got to be in the moment and be able to sit with your feelings and go through them and allow yourself to mourn and start thinking about what patterns you could observe and what you want to get differently in your next relationship and start making new–all those things really require being present and getting rid of the food obssession and that in many ways–I’m even happier about that than the physical change. I was really unhappy when I was 260 lbs but I can’t tell you the difference in peace, the difference what I can accomplish in my life, the amount of energy that I have, mental energy that I have that I’m not wasting figuring out what am I going to eat and how am I going to stop and you know. What am I going to have now?

    Is that enough calories and blah blah blah. It goes away in it’s place is life and all these wonderful these. Sometimes horrible things and sometimes life is horrible and so, you’re present with life and life’s terms and that’s just how it is but the physical change, the mental change and people react to me different. I’m talking about even before I lost the weight, I think people felt–I don’t know how to describe it. Like they felt my soul. They felt like I was really there.


  • Sort of like an energy type thing. Like you’re being more present, like there’s some sort of energy that you’re putting out?


  • Yes. There’s a saying in yoga. They say, “My soul, salutes your soul. The light within me salutes thee. The light within you–” Namaste right? And I think I experienced that. I think that or rather I saw other people experiencing that with me. There was room for them in my life suddenly and I mean those connections are just wonderful. It’s just what life is about.

  • Yeah, you know the really interesting thing I found specifically with dealing with people. I took all the success stories that I’ve ever had and I started looking for correlations. I started looking at what they said to me, what they did and I found some obvious things. LIke a lot of people did the no contact rule but one of the things that really shocked me the most, was it actually the people who moved on from their ex.

    Who kind of gained some of the clarity that you’re talking about that had more success in getting their exes back and I keep seeing different kind of examples of that time and time again where you would think, “Ok, this is the thing that has to happen to get your ex but it’s actually this other thing.” And that’s kind of the feeling that I’m getting here like most people are going to look at the binging and the benefits of it as, “Oh, you’re going to lose weight.” But really, what you’re more proud of is the extracurricular things that came afterwards.

    The extra energy, kind of the spirit thing. The whatever we’re talking about here. So, it’s really interesting, there’s more applications to than just losing weight than mastering what you’re talking about and I think it really boils down to the rule that you set and basically how you stop yourself from doing what the inner voice says which is I feel like–it’s not just could be applied to binging. It could be applied to a lot of different type addiction activities throughout your life.


  • Sure can. Maybe we should talk a little bit more about the practicalities of setting those rules?

  • Yeah, I’d love to do that! So, how would one-let’s make it really, really practical for people going through a break up. So, how would someone going through a break up. Do you want to make this about food or maybe about–

  • We can make it about going through a break up. I’m fine with that.

  • Alright, so, someone’s going through a break up. And they’re having trouble staying away from their ex. What kind of rule and what kind of inner dialogue can someone do to prevent themselves from making that happen?

  • Ok, so, I template that I use with my food people which I think would be applicable here. Is understand that there’s 4 different types of rules. There are things that you never do, there are things that you always do, there are things that you’ll only do under certain conditions and there are things that you can do in an unrestricted way. So, I think you need to look at your specific situation and define if you could get your inner sucker. I want to call it an inner sucker. If you can get your inner sucker out of the way completely.

    I know your inner sucker says this is impossible but if you could get it out of the way completely, how would you want to behave? And in a lot of situations, that’s going to be, I will never contact my ex again under any circumstances. And if that’s the case, that’s a really simple rule and we can leave it like that but not everybody can do that. For example–

  • Oh, I was going to say, most people who come to the website are like doing a 21-45 day no contact rule. So, can a rule work in that context where, “Hey, I’m not going to contact my ex no matter what for 21 days?” Can that rule work?

  • Yes, that’s what I would call the conditional rule.

  • Ok, conditional rule.

  • Or for me, it would be–I haven’t actually applied this to–I’m thinking through this spontaneously but it would something like, “I will not contact ex with anything but business and I will not contact her with anything but email.” Right?

  • Like you mentioned earlier, you’re going through a break up. One thing I’ve always learned, doing this half a decade is everyone has a unique situations. So, your situation is sort of, you have to contact her for business. Like you can’t just shut her out of your life completely right?

  • Right.

  • So, you’re conditional rule is that but someone going through a more maybe, general break up can have the 21 day, can’t contact the ex conditional rule. So, it’s interesting to see this applications apply to different situations. And I think that’s kind of what you’re trying to get at here.

  • That’s what I’m trying to get at but then I also think when I work with food and people– restrict a behavior like 39:51 “I will never eat chocolate again.” I tell them to also add something. Like, “I will always have 6 servings of fruit and vegetables everyday.” Because you’re taking something out of your life, let’s put something else that’s healthier into your life. So, help me out Chris. You know your audience better than with that point.


  • Yeah, so the big thing that comes to mind here is I always tell people they divide their life up into three aspects: health, wealth and relationships. And the thing that someone– I recommend people to do is do things in those three aspects of your life that really, really can benefit your life. So, maybe an example of wealth is maybe I’ll do a better job at school or maybe I’ll do a better job. Maybe relationship is I’ll go out and meet a new persona that I haven’t met before. Sometimes I’ve even found–even that’s I don’t necessarily recommend this but there is some reason studies done where actually going on a date and actually getting into a rebound relationship is one of the best things that you would do to get over your ex. So, there’s different ways to cultivate your life in these different areas and I think that would be a perfect thing to add to your rule. Like, ok I’m not going go to contact my ex for 21 days and at the same time, I’m going to go out and meet 5 people every week. 5 new people. I’m going to take a dance class. Something like that might actually work.


  • Yeah, absolutely yes or I’m going to journal everyday for 20 minutes.

  • Perfect. Yeah, women do that too yeah.

  • Men do it too! You know so, we have conditional rules, we have always rules which can–like what we just talked about and then sometimes with food it’s really helpful to define things you can do without restriction. Like I can have as many vegetables as I want to . Just to really remind yourself that you’re–there’s always plenty of food around and your plan is nutritionally completely and meant you’re not going to starve. And so, that’s the first thing that you can consider with regards to rules. The second thing you want to do once you think you have a rule that you want to follow, is you want to evaluate and ask, “If 10 people followed me around all day long,–” And I wrote this up in an index card. I wrote up this rule in an index card. At the end of the day, I ask them in a group, “Did I follow the rule or not?” Would all of them agree a 100%? See, and the reason for that is that ambiguity is the pig’s best friend. The pig looks for a little hole on the food plant. A little loop hole on the definition. We can try to bring this back to the break up in a moment and I’ll tell you where I’m most familiar.

    People will say things like, “I always stop eating when I’m full and I only eat when I’m hungry.” That’s what I call a guideline and not a rule because how would those 10 people know whether you stopped eating when you are full or whether you only eat when you are hungry? And the reason they wouldn’t know is because first of all, it’s all internal. And secondly, it’s a very squishy definition.

  • There’s not way to measure it either.

  • It’s very difficult to measure and so your pig can say, “You’re hungry. You know you’re hungry. You’re hungry. We want that. You’re not full yet. You’re not really full yet.” That doesn’t meant that’s a bad guideline. It’s a good way to live to eat when you’re hungry and stop when you’re full. But it’s never going to be more than  a guideline and if you’re really having trouble with portion control, you might want to have something that those 10 people could agree on like, “I will always get up from the table for 3 minutes and go to the bathroom before I go back for seconds.” Right?

  • Now, can I ask? What’s the reason behind 10 people instead of 1?

  • When I went to graduate school, we worked really hard to figure out how to quantify very squishy concepts like love and intimacy and you know, personal space. And the way that we did that was we would have observers watch people and we give them a scale and they would code like on a scale from 1-5, you know how much I contacted this person make and you know how distant was their face from the other person’s face. And to figure out whether that scale was any good or not, we created a statistic called inter-reader reliability which was a fancy way of saying to what extend do all of this people agree. And the higher we can get that number, the less ambiguity we knew was in the scale. The better the scale actually was. and when it comes to what we’re talking about which is overcoming an addictive behavior, you really need a perfect scale. Because if the peak and final loop hole of the scale is going to bust right through it.

  • It makes a lot of sense. 10 pairs of eyes is better than one pair of eyes.

  • We wouldn’t know. You couldn’t calculate inter-reader reliability on one person, you need at least two but 10 is much more reliable. That’s the fact why we have juries right?

  • Yeah, I absolutely love this type of thinking and I think –because the thing that I always have most trouble with when I’m advising people is saying, “Do this no contact rule.” And obviously there are situations or circumstances like –you even mentioned one where you work with your ex and you have to contact them. There’s just no way around it but keeping it just about that is really the best way to go which you cam to that conclusion all on your own without ever reading my website or anything but back to the main point before we went off on this tangent.

  • I kind of want to read your website now by the way.

  • Probably the book’s better but I’ll just give that to you for free. But anyways, the thing I always have the most trouble recommending to people is the fact that, they break the no contact rule so easily. So, there’s this inner dialogue going on. I can see it happening. I’ve even done live coaching studies where I can see it happening to the person whether they just care so much about what their ex is thinking or their ex contacts them while they’re trying to ignore them and their inner voice says, “Oh, just one. I’ll just text him back.” So, I think the application here is perfect. Creating your rule which it’s kind of what it’s all about. It starts with the rule and then basically holding yourself accountable or trying to find some inner dialogue of yourself to hold yourself accountable. That’s kind of the gist I’m getting here from your method.

  • It is. So, let’s take this analogy all the way. When I help people to create their food plan and a food plan is just the comprehensive set of rule you use to govern how you eat. When I help them create the food plan, I tell them, “You want to think of yourself like a city traffic planner.” And if you’re a city traffic planner, you would make an assessment of where are all the most dangerous intersections and what type of control do I need at minimum to protect the populous. I don’t want to slow the traffic down, I don’t want to impost too much structure because then I wouldn’t have done my job.

    I’m really trying to provide maximum freedom and maximum safety at the same time. And that prevents people from making overly complex, overly restrictive rules and it really provides a criteria for them to create a simple a food plan as possible that allows them the freedom but really protects them from the dangerous intersections. And so that’s what we want people to do with their inner sucker, as they were figuring out how to define their new conduct with their ex. You know, where do you really need your freedom, where the real danger is, and if you could completely control, if you can get your inner sucker out of the way and it couldn’t say where you can’t deal with this feelings then how would you behave and why would you do that and put that together for yourself so, that you can be the person you want to be.

  • So, what would you say to someone who has the rule defined and then let’s say their ex contacts them and they give in to it. They have the inner dialogue but it’s not strong enough to stop them from engaging in addictive behavior of contacting an ex?

  • Well, remember, we’re wired for success and no matter what physiological impulse you might have, you do have the ability to decide not to do it at the moment. You do have that ability. Just like you had the ability to decide when and where you’re going to go number 2. That’s not a bad thing to remember because it’s a little bit gross. It brings back some unpleasant feelings. It kind of, it works as a toxic analogy to combat feeling of infatuation and some of the positive feelings you might be remembering about your ex at the moment. And so, I think that you can use that, everything is that if you make a mistake, that you just get up and do no contact again. A lot of people are frightened to say, “I’m never going to do this or I’m never going to do that again.” But I ask them, if you had  a daughter, assuming you have a 5 year old daughter and she really wants to ride and she just learned how to ride a bike and she wants to ride to the top of the hill. Maybe she’s 7, she wants to the ride it to the top of the hill without  stopping and she says, “Mommy, I’m going get there.

    I really want to do it.” And let’s it’s a really big hill, even if it was much bigger than you knew she could ever do, you know without a lot of practice. Here’s what you wouldn’t say, you wouldn’t say, “No, little Sarah. I don’t think you should even try that because you’re not going to make it. You’re never going to make it the first time. So, don’t even bother.” Right?You’re not powerful enough, you’re not strong enough. What you would do is you would give her the philosophy of  a winner. You would say, “Ok, I want you to visualize yourself on top of that hill.” I want you to see yourself sitting on the top of the hill with your hands way up in the air with the victory sign, the big smile on your face. I want you to be screaming, “I did it! I did it! I did it!” And if Sarah didn’t do it, you would pick her up and say, “Ok, what did we do wrong? Did we not–even at beforehand, we do not have enough water, maybe we need to go to this exercise in the gym first. Ok now, let’s visualize the top again.” That’s how winners think. Winners get back up and do it again.

  • Yeah, I love the analogy. Almost a perfect analogy because you wouldn’t just–even if the daughter failed, you wouldn’t just put her down and say, “Oh, you’ll never be able to succeed.”  You’ll just pick her back up and try to build her confidence back up. I guess the same principle applies here. And really, what this will all boils down to is you have everything really structured perfectly in your book, never binge again which yes, it is about eating but a lot of the concepts that you talk about in the book can be applied to a lot of different things. So, why don’t you tell us a little bit more about your book because that’s really why we brought you on here because the book is really, really good.

  • Well, thanks Chris. I hope it’s good because the book is what got me to stop and break through years of food addiction. It was originally a journal. By the way, you can get the book at on the Kindle–

  • which I’ll link to for everyone listening.

  • Yup and what you want to do is click on the reader bonuses and that’s how you get the latest link and if you have any trouble getting it for free sometmes it’s not available out of the country, then send me an email and I will, I’ll get you a pdf copy. But the reason to do that is that I recorded a whole bunch of coaching sessions and I’ll send those to you too. So, you can carry out this works in practice and I also created a bunch of food plan starter template so that you can see how this rules work and just kind of takes them work and customize them through yourself. So, if any of this was confusing then you have that resource. Anyway, yeah so the book was originally my journal. It was my inner battles with my pig and I’d write down all of the pig squeals and all the crazy clever things that the pig was saying and how I went up beating them.

  • Was the chocolate at Starbucks one of them?

  • Yeah.

  • I thought that was a fascinating rationalization. I don’t even think I’m intelligent enough to go there like, “Oh yeah, it’s chocolate but it’s growing on a plant so, technically it’s a vegetable.


  • My pig 53:12 It’s a short easy read. I think it’s only a 110 pages or something like that. People constantly tell me that they pick it up and they can’t put it down. it’s got over 400 reviews. It’s been a–I think it’s been the best selling book on Amazon for almost 6 now in the binge eating category. 53:40 and that’s the book!

  • That’s the book which we’ll link to excessively for you Glenn. So people will be able to read this and like I said. Even if you think you’re not having type of eating issues, Glenn and I,  must have spent like what like 20-30 minutes just talking about the applications to the no contact rule. So, there’s a lot of stuff in here that can apply to different areas of your life even if you think it’s not for you. So, it’s something that I am going to go ahead and recommend that you check out right now.

  • This is a book about a mental trick of mind. It’s a mental trick of mind that you can apply to all different aspects of your life and a way to structure some clarity for yourself in how you actually want to behave. At no point in the book do I tell you what to eat or that you can’t eat this or you can’t eat that. So, I’ve had people who tell me they want to use the book to eat cereal all week long and that’s only what they have and I say, “Ok, if that’s what you think is healthy, then let’s do that.” So, it’s at just click the big red button and then you’ll figure it out from there.

  • now where else can people find you Glenn?

  • That’s the easiest way. There’s a contact button. You know I also do my other life. I teach marketing and you could go to and you know, sign up for my marketing list there but it’s a totally different.

  • It doesn’t even apply to the binge eating thing.

  • Yeah, no it doesn’t . It doesn’t. I want to coach training organization. Go to and again you’ll get to online stuff eventually if you’re interested. So, that’s the place to find me.

  • Any parting words of wisdom here for the listeners?

  • Oh, I also have a forum at

    Just go to and you’ll get everywhere. The parting words of wisdom Chris would be that:

    All you need to do to never to binge again, is never binge again. You don’t have to sit by the river and contemplate your navel. You don’t have to smack yourself in the head with the spatula. You really just need to define what it means to never binge again. Learn to use a mental trick that separates your destructive thinking, the part that conditions you to do it from your constructive thinking which is all your goals and aspirations. And practice that technique until you perfect it and sit out from the top of the hill with the visualization of you reaching the top victoriously and you will.

  • I love having smart people on. That is so much smarter than–I think I was asked that once. I did not come anywhere close to having the parting words of wisdom you just had. So, I just want to take a moment to appreciate, tell you that I appreciate you coming on to the show Glenn.

  • Thanks Chris! I appreciate on having me on. If there’s anyway I can help you, let me know.


  • Thanks!

  • Ok.	

Written by EBR Teamate

Chris Seiter