What It Takes To Make A Relationship Work With An Ex (With Erik Newton)

"I Can't Believe I Actually Have a Chance of Getting Him Back!"

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It’s not often that I say this but you really need to listen to this podcast episode.

Not only because it can help you with your ex but it can help you with pretty much any relationship you find yourself in.

Today’s guest is a man by the name of Erik Newton!

Now, the interesting thing about Erik is the fact that he used to be a divorce lawyer. Yes, that means that the man has probably seen more breakups than I have which makes him a very interesting resource for you.

Of course, I say he “used” to be a divorce lawyer but he quit to follow his true passion.

together

Yup, he quit to talk to couples about relationships through his website and his podcast “Together” which ironically my wife and I were on.

Anyways, so far this has been my favorite episode that I have ever done.

I don’t think I have laughed this hard in a long time.

Not only does Erik have a fascinating view of what it takes to make a relationship work but he also taught me a lot of things in this interview.

Check it out!

Video Of This Episode (What It Takes To Make A Relationship Work With An Ex)

First off, I want to bring your attention to the fact that Erik and I had the exact same headphones!

Great minds think alike I guess.

What do you think of these videos?

Are they helpful for you?

I’d love to hear your thoughts in the comments.

What We Talk About In This Episode

  • The importance of buying your lady flowers
  • The problem with codependent relationships
  • What is good communication?
  • Conflict is an opportunity for greater depth
  • Desperation is a big no no
  • How “Gain Theory” applies to relationships
  • Psychological reactance

Important Links Mentioned In This Episode

Interview Transcript:

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Ok, we’re live. Be on your best behavior… No! I’m just kidding! How are you doing Erik? What’s up?

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

I’m good. I’m good. Thanks for having me in the show. 

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, of course. Just returning the favor because I was on your show!

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

That’s right. That was definitely good interview. I can’t wait to post it. 

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

I had a lot of fun. My wife and I were cracking up after. Like, talking about it like 30-40 minutes after we have recorded. We were just like, “Oh, that was so fun. I want to do that again.”

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

I’m glad she liked it too. I mean I pushed you guys on that jealousy bit. 

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, you did. You did but it was all good. We didn’t really much have to hide or anything. It makes for great interviews anyways when you get to the small, little stuff that people hide you know? 

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Yeah exactly but it’s not even that they’re intending to hide it. Like that was always so great about what you guys were talking about. It never even crossed your mind. 

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Well, yes. 

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Explore the nature of that particular question. 

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, it’s interesting too because I think, a lot of people, especially when their partners are sitting right next to them. They don’t want to like upset them by saying something. So, having someone there to maybe prod you along is kind of need and you know. 

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

In a loving, gentle way. 

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Of course! This guy is insane! Loving and gentle he says!

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Loving and gentle hahaha!

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Alright, well Eric. You have kind of an interesting story. So, obviously but first this is going to be so far and left field but I have to ask you. Your website design is like phenomenal.

Like all I have to see was the website design to be like I have to get this guy on the show. And his podcast, like artwork or anything.

It’s like this really high quality picture of two people like in the midst of like a real passionate kiss. Is that like people you know? Is that like you and your fiance? Or is it just a random royalty free image you picked up?

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Well, so my girlfriend is a photographer and so she knows lots of photographers in the business. And that happens to be an outtake from a photo shoot from a Rayban commercial that my girlfriend’s friend shot and coincidentally the girl in that is also another friend of hers. So, it’s just all of this coincidences that came together and we paid for the photo. I mean we bought from the photographer. 

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

That’s really amazing. In fact, if I get your permission, I’d like to post it on the show notes because that is like a phenomenal photo. Like just that alone pretty much sums up your show. 

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

It speaks of passion doesn’t it? 

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

It is! My wife we were doing research on trying to find like, collaborate with different podcasters and stuff and came across this. I think I was the one who found it first but I was like,

“Ah, they look like they’re in a different league than us. There’s no way they’ll ever have us!”

And so, I went to your website and you were–you’ve got a really, really interesting story because I don’t think initially you set off on your career path wanting to talk to couples. I mean you had kind of something that–well, you would talk to couples obviously because you’re a divorce lawyer right?

So, how did that come about? Because a divorce lawyer is like one thing but now you’re like a podcaster that talks to couples all the time and I think kind of the theme of your show is to connect some quote about like relationships.

Good relationship isn’t luck, it’s like a skill and you’re like trying to get to the inner workings of what makes the relationship work which I think is perfect for our listeners but how did that come about? How did you arrive at that destination? 

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Being a divorce lawyer is just emotionally tough. If I’m going to be really honest, I think most divorce lawyers don’t survive it. They come out the other end less happy and for a good reason.

I mean you’re dealing with good people but at the worst time of their life and they’re not behaving well and they’re lashing out at everybody around them. It’s just tough and yet I was drawn to something about it. I didn’t expect to be a divorce lawyer when I was in law school but somehow I ended up doing that.

And you got to stop and wonder, “Wait a minute. Why did I end up doing this thing?” There must be some reason for it. And the element of divorce law, it was always compelling to me where the human, like the deep unresolved human element on it.

What is going on through this people that they might not even be conscious of but that is driving their entire lives. 

And it’s not really my role to deal with that stuff as a lawyer. That’s what therapists do or a priest or you know but I would never break them up and get the money. It never matched but I felt like I was in the right room doing the wrong thing. You know what I mean?

So, then when my law firm went under several years later, which is an entirely different story. I just thought what actually made me happy during the last several years?

And it was talking to couples and individual people about that I’m telling you that unresolved, deep, emotional stuff and so, I started a  podcast. I just go to talk to couples about unresolved emotional stuff. 

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

And just let me stop you there. He talks to so many different couples like, you had a couple on that were not like monogamous so much. They were kind of a non-monogamous relationship. And then you had a couple on from–I think you said it when we were on– it was like your Aunt and Uncle or something?

And they’re kind of older. So, you kind of tackle a lot of different ends of the spectrum and it’s really, really fascinating. And in fact, I listened a little bit. I didn’t listen to the whole thing so, don’t like quiz me or anything but I listened to a little bit to the one you recommended about the cheating which is really interesting and I think–

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Fascinating right? 

Chris Setier

Chris Setier

It can have a lot of applications to the listeners I have here because a lot of them are breaking up because they have cheated and they don’t think there’s any chance perhaps of salvaging that. So, what insights on that particular episode did you like take and learn from? Because it was pretty interesting, this couple who kind of cheated all the time. 

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Actually we’ve had a lot of infidelity on our show. The great thing about this show is I never know what the couples are going to talk about when they–because this are just people I don’t really know.Occasionally I know them but usually I don’t. So, they just start talking and it’s like you said non-monogamy. I’ve had 10 of those I think or people who had infidelity in their relationship in one way or another.

And what I’ve learned about infidelity is that, well a few things. There’s a few things I learned. One is, the actual act, the sexual act which is usually what it is, isn’t the issue. It’s the sexual act is a symptom of a deeper disconnection with the couple. And here’s the part that we don’t like to talk about in our culture and it’s kind of edgy but both parties are at cause.

Both people are at cause for the lead up and I know that we do have to acknowledge the pain that the victim is feeling. That’s for sure and we have to acknowledge the transgression. That is for sure. The person who cheated shouldn’t have cheated. End of story. That said, there’s an opportunity for a couple when there’s an infidelity to explore how each of them is responsible for that lead up.

Take ownership of it and then from that place, they can transform who they’re being in the relationship and that’s what the couple on my show atleast have said, caused them to be better humans and a better couple afterwards. 

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, yeah. It’s really interesting. I don’t know–have you ever heard of Esther Perel? She’s like a–:

I love her stuff but I remember listening to this TED talk she did once where she was talking about couples who cheated. She studied this like for years. So, she really said something that really kind of struck a cord with me.

A lot of people they didn’t feel bad for cheating. They feel bad and guilty for hurting their partner but the actual act itself  was exciting so, they didn’t really feel bad for it. And that almost made it worse because like I think the other person could almost pick up on like a fake apology or something.

And so, it just kind of snowballs from there but it’s just really interesting. You know how people don’t really feel bad for actually cheating because it was exciting but they feel bad for hurting their partner. 

So, I don’t know if you ever experience that with any of the couples you have interviewed? 

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

That’s pretty correct. You know I’ve ever heard that. It doesn’t surprise now that you say it. I’ll say that the couples on my show all felt a lot of remorse for having done it. What’s similar to what you’re saying with my couples is they would look back, they could understand why did it.

Do you know what I mean? They would say to themselves, “I shouldn’t have done it. I’m really sorry for hurting you. I wish I hadn’t done it but we were in a bad place and it was good.” It’s never about the sex. It was like, “I felt loved by somebody.” or, “I felt appreciated by somebody or understood by somebody finally for the first time.”

That episode you listened to. What could I love about that episode? Is that they both cheated on each other at different times and almost lost their relationship each time and–

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

And they had kids together too and everything. 

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Yeah, which came later which is I don’t want to give away the story too much with kids playing in part in rolling the whole thing but yeah, each one of them cheated and they were each cheating for different reasons. For her, she had felt like she wasn’t being seen. Her husband didn’t acknowledge her, appreciate her. He wasn’t giving her the attention that she needed to know that she was in a marriage. 

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, yeah. I think a lot of women feel that way nowadays you know? There’s a lot of like work stresses and it’s easy to not really pay attention. Especially if you’re like financially worried or something or there’s some other thing going on perhaps. I don’t know. 

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Yeah, it’s so easy to get buried and you know at work or the media and you know and then suddenly two years have passed by and you haven’t sent your lady flowers or told her you loved her and you know? We all know that’s a bad recipe but we keep following into the trap. 

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

I think everyone knows that’s a bad recipe but I think it’s uh–people get a little bit too comfortable in their relationships. 

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Oh, there’s that for sure. Have you seen this apps? This were getting developed. I don’t know if they exists. This apps where it would send men reminders to do things for their partners?

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

I’ve never seen that. No, that’s pretty good actually.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

That’s genius right? 

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

I might even invest in that hahaha!

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

I don’t know if they actually took off. I remember a couple of years ago. They were about 3 of them being built. I mean for some people. I don’t want to make it a gender thing all the time but for some people and usually I think it is men. It’s just hard to remember.

I mean you’re like, “Well, I told her I love her she should know. Why do I have to tell her again?” You know or like, “Flowers? I mean I sent her flowers last year. Why does she need flowers again?” This little things, this little expressions make such a difference for people and sometimes they just need to be told. Do it!

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, you’re right. It’s interesting that you brought that you up. Jen’s birthday was actually yesterday. I didn’t forget. So, I’m still good there but I was like trying to wrap my mind around like what to get her. And it was like, “Well, I could get her flowers but what kind of dent is that going to make?” You know, that’s just flowers.

She wanted to get Invisalign for her teeth but her teeth are like perfect but there’s like one tooth that kind of like moved a little bit. She had braces before and I guess she stopped or under retainer and just like one tooth. Her teeth looks perfect but it’s like upsetting her so much.

So, I was like, “Well, I think that can give me out of the flower thing.” That’s like better than flowers. So I went with that and now I’m thinking, “Ah crap. I should’ve done the flowers. This is pretty expensive!”

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Well, but see the nice thing about flowers is they’re a no brainer right? Because they’re probably not enough but they’re a good baseline. It can never go wrong.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, I used to get her flowers like when we started dating like every single day. I felt like, like valentine’s day, I brought like so many flowers I pick the rose petals off and like have the rose petals. Yeah, it hasn’t happened in probably a year or so. I might need to get on that. Thanks for the reminder! See, why do I need an app? I’ve got you Erik!

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

It’s funny you bring that up. So, we’re thinking about taking on advertisers on our podcast. And I was talking to the person who’s helping me find company’s and that and I said, “What about our flower company? I really like this particular one that sends organic flowers.” And she said, “Well, I think it’s probably just for valentine’s day.” And I’m like, “No. That’s the whole point.

Men need to remember. It’s for all the time.” Just drop 50 bucks and send the flower. 25 bucks! It’s not that much money. Just send them. In fact, I’m getting off this. I swear to you I’m getting off this interview and I’m sending my lady flowers in New York right after this. 

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Oh, she’s in New York right now? You’re in San Francisco still? 

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

We live in San Francisco but she’s a photographer and travels all over the place. She’s on the road right now for a month doing different shoots around the world. It’s pretty exciting for her. I definitely miss her but I’m glad for her career. 

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Well, send her the flowers I guess and you’re welcome. You take the lead. I’ll just follow. Maybe I’ll send some flowers. I’m going to write that down actually. 

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Yeah, it’s just a couple of bucks!

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Jen will listen to this until probably like couple of weeks out anyway so..

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Exactly and now she’ll know why. 

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

You’re right! Crap! hahaha! Yeah, ok. I think we got way off base. 

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Hahaha! So, what’s going on? Tell me about your boyfriend recovery–you know or ex..

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, exboyfriend. In fact you see it back there. I’ve got the super expensive–

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

And you’ve got it on your little mic thing too. I wish I had one of those. 

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

You should do it. It’s Impact PBS is the thing that does this. It’s like 250 bucks but just send them a logo and they custom design it however you want. 

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

It’s great. 

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

It might be nice for The Together Show but what do I know?

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

I’m doing it!

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Ok, so let’s get back on top. People are probably tuning out as we speak hahaha!

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Sorry! We’re ruining your show!

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Hahaha! It’s all good! It’s all good! Ok, so divorce lawyer. Now, you have a lot of insight into break ups. Now, a lot of the listeners–I’m not going to lie to you. I think when we talked on the phone weeks ago, I was telling you about the website and how it worked and how I was kind of like–

you know a lot of people want their exes back but at the same time they need to kind of go through a process to understand that maybe they’re not best with that person and you were-you said something really interesting. You were like, “Yeah, I think people need to go through that process and I’m glad that you’re open for that process.” 

Well I think there’s like no one more qualified to talk about break ups than you because you’ve probably had more experience dealing with them every single than maybe even me because you dealt with the worse kind of break ups, divorce.

You know, that’s like really difficult. So, I was wondering, what are some tips that maybe you have for someone going through a breakup to maybe handle with it. Not necessarily get their ex back but handle the emotions and everything that goes along with it? 

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Yeah wow! It’s just a big topic. Well, what I was excited about–you know when I first heard about your website I thought, “Maybe it’s just about getting your boyfriend back.” which is fine. I mean there’s nothing wrong with that and as a divorce lawyer.

I saw couples. Not a lot of them but definitely saw couples reconcile and we’re always really grateful for that when it happened. But a lot of times for one reason or another, it’s not going to happen. Maybe the other party doesn’t want to or maybe as you were suggesting, they’re just not a good match. And what made me so happy about learning more about your process is that you’re providing a space for people to explore their response, the fear that we all have as human being.

Just so you know that kind of existential fear of being alone in order to let go of the past. And that’s the deepest, most fundamental piece of the wisdom that you’re up to and I’m really grateful that you’re doing that for people. Because again, sometimes, maybe it is about recovering the boyfriend or the girlfriend but I think more of the time, it’s about learning about yourself. 

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah. I think that’s kind of the topping on everything that we do. A lot of self healing aspects because I noticed that a lot of times, people come to the website I’ll say, “Hey, maybe you shouldn’t get this guy back.” But nothing I say to them will change their mind. So, obviously letting them go through a process where maybe they’re trying to get their ex back and helping them along that process but at the same time, I like to sprinkle in like, “Ok, maybe you should go on dates with someone else.” or “Maybe, you should really look at maybe re-structuring your life or improving it or improving this aspect of your life or helping yourself understand.

Pick up a new hobby.” Something like that and we’ve found–now the cool thing is we have a large website. Half a million people coming every single month. We have a huge sample size. So, we can kind of test different things out to see what works. We found that women who move on actually end up getting their exes back more often than the women who do not. So, it’s really interesting.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Right. Well, nobody likes desperation.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Nope. No one does.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

That’s not attractive on any level and you can’t fake it though. You can’t fake the lack of desperation. You can’t fake the confidence.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

No, you cannot.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

You either moved on which gets you attractive.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Exactly. That is–we should highlight that point or something because that is so true. You truly have to like feel like, “Ok, I’m done. I’ve moved on.” And then all of a sudden, you’ll notice, exboyfriend starts to contacting you again.

Talking to you again. It’s just this weird thing that happens. I’m not even sure I have a really great explanation for it. Just maybe by putting yourself in this frame of mind. You’re more open to different things. He catches wind of it. Gets a little jealous, wants to talk to you again. Who knows?

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Well, I often wonder about this too. I have the example with my mom.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Wow! Good example!

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

My mom is in this wonderful marriage and let’s see. They’ve been married 25 years now. He’s my step dad. And you know like with all couples, they go through phases where they’re just not happy with each other. There’s just challenges in the relationship and–but I’m not her only confidant. T

hat wouldn’t be appropriate but occasionally she’ll come and tell me what’s going on and why she’s sad and we’ll talk about a little bit and what I always noticed, what he fell in love with her for was her independence. Her strength of character.

He fell in love with a woman who is self sufficient and capable and a lovely woman.
And in the course of the relationship, they started to merge together and their views started to become the same views and their taste become the same taste. It happens right? With all of us. And suddenly, they’re not feeling so independent and she’s just accepting his decisions about things.

I remember one time, he wanted to choose the car she was going to buy. I mean you know, whatever. It was easy. She didn’t care but then she starts realizing that he’s not really happy with the fact–he wants to make decisions but he’s not actually happy with doing it. And she always has to reassert herself and then their love blossoms again.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Ah, it kind of like kick starts it up again. Reignite the sparks so to speak.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Everytime.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, it’s interesting. I think a lot of the women who come to our website, they’re obviously not in a good place. They’re going through a break up and a lot of times, there’s a reason for the break up and I think it’s really great point you brought. up.

They kind of lose themselves in the relationship. They aren’t really necessarily the person that their ex boyfriend fell in love with to begin. And I think that’s kind of what you’re saying.

You need to almost do little things to reignite your relationship. Be a little bit more independent. Not be so,–I don’t know. I don’t even know what to say.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

I mean but there is something about that–I mean if you just look at basic relationship psychology, what we find is that co dependent relationship is where each of the parties loses their sense of self. And they’re dependent upon the interaction with the other person in order to know that they are whole and complete right?

That’s the case with most unhealthy relationship dynamics is, each party is depending upon this relationship dynamic to know that they’re ok.

And whenever that’s happening, something’s missing. The couple’s not going to be very happy for the long term and what they need to do is reassert their own independent separate identity.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

I actually love that you brought that up because I think a lot of times when they’re a little bit to codependent on the relationship, that’s when the desperation aspect can come in.

Especially if they feel like they’re going to lose the relationship. They’re acting really desperate to do things that try to get it back.

Now have you ever heard of this term called Psychological Reactance?

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

No, what is that?

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

I think you’ll eat this up. So, here’s how it works. On our website, we teach women to go through a no contact rule. I’m sure you’ve heard of that.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Yeah.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Ok. So, usually the no contact rule is anywhere between 21-45 days. It just depends on the situation. Well, I was trying to figure out what–like all the experts out there recommending this no contact rule.

Why does it work? So, I started doing this research and I came across this really fascinating study where they came up with this idea of psychological reactance. So, basically how it works is human beings, we have a certain amount of set freedoms.

I have the freedom to stand up and turn the computer off if I wanted. Nothing is stopping me from doing that but if something comes up and prevents me from doing that, I’m more likely to react in a way to try to reobtain that freedom.

So, essentially by the no contact rule, by implementing we are ignoring our ex right? So, I’m saying, “Ok, I’m not going to respond to him, talk to him or anything.” By doing that, you’ve taken away the freedom he has of talking to you.

So, in a weird way, psychological reactance tells us he’s more likely to act in a way to try to get that freedom back. And so, it’s just a fascinating thing, this little studies and somehow codependence in that merged with me but–

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Well you know what, that makes me think about there’s been a lot of research in gain theory by economists to try to understand why people purchase what they purchase, etc. And one of the fundamental rules is that people are more responsive to fear of loss that to interest in gain.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Interesting. That definitely connects up with that.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

And so, you’ll see a lot of sales techniques are about taking it away. Like you offer something, “This might be available for–Oh but I don’t know if it’s for you.”

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Ah, limited time only or something like that.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Exactly, yes. People respond to a fear of loss. So, I’m sure that must play into the relationship dynamic also. You know as a divorce lawyer, usually when couples came into me, they were done.

There wasn’t a question of can we get back. When there was, we would send them to a therapist or we’re going to talk about it with them for a little while but they usually couldn’t afford to talk to us about that issue. So, we send them onto therapist.

But when they would come to our office, they were pretty much ready to be done and the first lesson that we try to teach to them about the process of actually breaking up if it’s for sure over. Is do it quickly.

Do it quickly and efficiently because you will learn from this and you can move on but if you hold on to it, it’s just going to drag you down financially and emotionally. So, get it done as fast as possible and do the emotional work as fast possible.
I think that’s where it’s at. I think it’s emotional work around all of the limitations we face in life but break ups too.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, it’s interesting. What are some things that people do emotionally to maybe get over their ex faster then the average person? It’s interesting because I feel like you make a good point. Most of the people who are going through divorce are pretty much.

It’s probably really rare for someone to get back together and a divorce lawyer is kind of the go to for protocol on this. So, like I said, you’re like the perfect person to ask. Like what are some things that you and your practice would recommend for someone who wants to get over their ex completely and move on?

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Yeah, well as lawyers, we would tell them go to a therapist. That’s the number 1 thing but why therapy? Why is therapy so important? That’s the question that’s interesting to me because it’s–the funny thing about therapy is it’s kind of a dirty word in our culture.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah it is. No one wants to admit that. It’s almost like you’ve got a problem if you’re seeing a therapist you know?

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

It’s more like going to get your teeth cleaned at the dentist. It doesn’t mean you have a cavity.  You got to get your teeth cleaned, that’s how you prevent the cavities. Same thing! Go to the therapist. The other one that you’d like you to think is you can’t see the back of your head without a mirror.

You just can’t. If you need to address the back of your head, get a mirror. If you need to deal with your emotional issue around breakups, get a therapist. End of story but why?
The reason is this,  a lot of our behavior in this world is rooted in unconscious traumas that started in childhood and we all have them. I mean trauma’s a big word but it doesn’t have to be abused. It’s just the process of being a human being in the early years.

We run up against boundaries in life and they’re scary. And then we make up stories about how to survive that and those stories grow and grow and grow and 25 years later, 30 years later, we have a personality founded in our responses to all of this fears and limitations we ran up against when we were little kids.

And we all have this, it’s just to how we are and it’s fine if you are all alone living in a cave, it wouldn’t be no big deal but you bumped up against another human being who also has their own stories that they’ve build their personality on and they’ve got fears that they’re not even conscious about and that’s when the fights ensue.

And the whole point of a therapist is just to take a step back and realize that all of this emotional reactions that you’re having are rooted in this stories from years past that are not really relevant anymore but are definitely driving your behaviour and just look at them. You need just to look at them.

You’ll just uncover this unconscious behavior patterns that you’ve got and bring them to the light. It’s a simple process of conversation and inquiry-personal inquiry. But when you bring things to the light they tend to melt away.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, I think talking about them too like, a lot of people have this fears inside. I know there’s a woman– I interviewed a dating coach a few weeks ago. She told me this really interesting story about this woman who as a child, to your point, her father had left or something like the mother had just come home and all of a sudden off they guy–the fathers’–

so, it affected her so much that anytime, anyone that she dated would kind of just leave the house or something, she became so afraid that he was going to leave her forever.

And it just kind of–obviously it didn’t play well with the men in her life and she couldn’t really hold down a man but she went to a therapist and talked about this and it was some thing that she had never verbalized. Something just maybe deep inside of her.

And when she verbalized it, she kind of understood a little bit better and didn’t make the same mistakes going forward. So, I think maybe a therapist also can help you get some of the things that you haven’t ever verbalized out into the open and I think that helps with the healing as well.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Definitely. That’s one of the classic dynamics by the way. The conflict avoider and the person who’s seeking connection always seem to come together. It’s the same dynamic that my partner and I have.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Which one are you?

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

I’m the conflict avoider. I hate conflict and actually it usually matches up with men for some reason. Boy if there is going to be a fight, I want to ignore it. It’s my instinct to ignore it.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, it’s the worst thing going through a fight isn’t it?

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

It’s the worst.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

You want to avoid it at all costs like–

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Especially with the one you love the most.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, exactly.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

I think for me, I’ve always wondered why that is. I wonder if there is something biological about if I’m going to fight, I’m going to fight full out and I don’t want to do the damage. And so, I’m always holding back. I don’t know what it is.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

I honestly think it’s due to my very, very first break up. And that one, I was not a conflict avoider and I would fight with her. And there would be a lot of genuine reasons for why I’d fight but it would just get me so worked up and it essentially deteriorated the relationship so much that I thought,

“Well, I just ruined that relationship for no good reason.”

I don’t want that to happen to me again. And so that experience, impacted me going forward with my other relationships. Obviously with my wife too. I don’t want to do anything to deteriorate that. So, I avoid conflict.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Exactly right and that’s the great irony though. For guys like us, the insight to have is that the conflict is the opportunity for greater depth if it’s approached elegantly.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

It’s often not though.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

It’s not though right? But as long as you– I mean that is really the lesson for me. Is with Aubrey, if I’m willing to go into the conflict, it doesn’t mean fighting more but it means sitting with her feelings and allowing her to have her upset and her angry and allowing myself to be angry about whatever and then exploring where they’re coming from.

Always, every single time, we come out deeper and more connected afterwards but it’s hard. And the lesson for her, if I go into conflict avoidance mode, she feels like she’s getting abandoned. And then that’s pretty typical dynamic too. So, if she feels like she’s being abandoned, what’s her reaction? She comes at me more which makes me withdraw more right?

So, my lesson is to allow it, to allow the conflict, to stay there in it with her. Her lesson is to allow me my space when I need it because for her, the insight is, her safety and security and individuality does not depend on me at all. She’s an independent human being.

So, If I can’t have a conversation with her in a particular moment, it doesn’t mean anything about her or her safety or our relationship. It just means I need a moment. And like wise for me, the fact that she’s angry doesn’t mean anything about me.

It doesn’t mean I’m a bad person or a wrong person or that our relationship is going to end or that I’m going to be desperately alone for the rest of my life because I’m a loser or any of this shit stuff that comes up in my mind you know?It just means that she’s angry and as a man, it’s my sacred duty frankly to be there with her, to hold that anger in the relationship.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah. It’s really interesting too. I think you are qualified to talk about this because you’ve interviewed so many couples and just to let people listening to this episode know, he doesn’t just do like 20 minute interviews.

He does like an hour, an hour and a half. I mean this, when we came on your show, it was you were asking some pretty tough questions. It’s almost like you’re trying to get the dirt.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Well, yeah. I want to get to the real conflict. I want to get to the truth of the conflict for sure.

 Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah but it’s interesting  because you can get a lot of probably learning experience too from learning and seeing how others approach things successfully. So, what are some of the things, just from interviewing, how many couples have you interviewed by the way?

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Ah, I’ve interviewed probably close to a hundred and at least 60 episodes, 64 episodes as of today.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

So, out of a hundred interviews with couples, what are some of the things you learned that make the best relationships work? Obviously the conflict avoider thing is a really good tip for I think anyone listening including myself.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

That’s a typical example. The thing that blew me away was how much therapy, successful couples use. I mean we already talked about that but just to underline it one more time. The really successful couples go to some kind of workshop therapy.

They go to maybe a Pastor if they are religious. Whatever it is, they’re going to an outside, independent neutral third party to talk about their relationship when times are good. That’s the key. They’re going when times are good because then they build the foundation for communication.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Now, I want to stop you there because I’m going to get honest here. To me, remember how we were talking earlier about like it’s kind of taboo to talk about therapy right?

I think I would fall into that category because just thinking about it now, I was thinking, “Well times are pretty good but I don’t need to go to therapy.” So, what would you say to someone like me, to get me to go.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Well, I mean I understand. I totally get it. I mean, same thing, you don’t want to exercise when you’re feeling fit. I mean you just don’t or you don’t want to practice when you’re good on the Tennis court. Why do I need to practice more?

But we all know, that’s the nature of being human. You practice so you stay fit and so that you stay on top of your game. It’s the same thing with the therapy. You just cannot see your blindspots. You just cannot see your blindspot and you’ve got them. I don’t care how happy you are, you’re doing stuff that is driving her crazy right?

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Oh, yeah. There’s no doubt.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

And there’s ways that you are not able to talk about it. For whatever reason, it’s just how we all are and that’s the point of a therapist. Now, I will say that when you are in a good stage, you have to be really clear with the therapist about that because they’re used to couples only coming to them when things are bad.

So, if you’re going in for the tune up at good times, you have to say that and they approach it in a different way. But yeah, I mean, it’s just like a having a coach of exercise or just one of the things you got to do.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

I’m loving the analogies here. So, what are some other things. So, we have the conflict avoidance thing, we have the therapy.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Everybody wants to say, communication is key right? If you ever talk to a couple about why their successful like, “Well, we communicate.”  What does that even mean? Ok fine, it’s a word. I get it but you talk to each other? What does it really mean? And so, I’ve drilled a lot of people on that question to get down to the root of it.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

I think you even drilled us. I think Jen said it. She’s like big on that, communicating you know? It was a long interview so, I can’t remember if you did or not but I’m pretty sure you did and I’m pretty sure she said it.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Good. Good. Ok, I’ll have to highlight that when we post it. So, communication is key but what actually is it? From what everybody says, it’s going to manifest in different ways but when it comes down to, is that there’s something fundamental about who you are or what you’re up to in life or what you’re feeling.

You’ve got to be able to share that fact or that feeling without fear of being ashamed with your partner. And if you can’t share, you’re probably in the wrong relationship. There’s got to be safe space for expressing who you are, your true identity.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, I think that’s a phenomenal tip.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Let me say another piece to that, the nature of true identity. It’s kind of a misleading term. It changes all the time. You know, who we are, who we truly are is probably a spiritual question and answer. And who we are in this life that we’re living is an influx. You know, it’s like an ever flowing river.

So, it’s not just about communicating who you are today but the changes as well and that can be really scary because when you change, you might think, “Well here, she is not going to like this change and that might mean we’re going to lose the relationship and I love this relationship.” So, a lot of people are reluctant to talk about the change but you’ve got to and if you can’t, there’s something missing in the relationship. And that’s your duty to make a clean space for you partner to share to.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, I think it’s a phenomenal tip. Not just for people going through break ups and trying to communicate with their exes but relationships in general. Because I feel like honestly it would be difficult if there was a massive change or something that was so far out of left field that you’d knew your partner was going to react negatively to.

Like you said, you’re worried about losing the relationship but maybe it serves as almost like a test. Like if something like that happens and if my partner wouldn’t allow me to share it, maybe I’m not with the right person.

So, maybe that’s something that people listening to this podcast, who are going through a break up, who are kind of on the fence on whether or not to get their ex back. If they can’t have that kind of sharing–I don’t know what word to use. Like an environment to share or something, maybe it’s not the best person to be with.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Yeah, because you’re never going to be able to fully blossom if you can’t share who you are and what you want. This manifest a lot around sexual desire. We had a couple on the show, who talked about the journey from not being attracted to one another at all.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Wow! That’s pretty interesting.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Yeah, it was intense. They were inlove. They were sort of intellectually realized that they loved one another but she just really wasn’t attracted to him.

And couldn’t get over that hump and did some pretty profound work on what attraction meant to her and changed the way she looked at him and now they are hot and passionate on a level that blows my mind. And so, it’s a really interesting show. I won’t give away everything that she said about it but–

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Uh, any idea what episode that is or you can?

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Yeah, I can look it up as we’re talking or actually let me give it to you after the show and put it in the show notes. So, I won’t get distracted, because yeah, we get distracted. The point about that for me was one of our takeaways was this idea that we all have desires, sexual desires which are tough to talk about in this culture.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Very taboo now. It’s very taboo for anyone to even ask you a question. And I think it’s even worse like with family members too. Like you don’t–growing up I don’t think I ever, ever, ever talk to my parents about that.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Exactly! As a result of that, there’s so much shame about it but you know the truth is we’re all a little weird. We’re all a little weird. There’s no getting around it and if you can share that little bit of weirdness with your partner, your sex life is going to take off and your intimacy is going to take off. If you can’t you’re always going to feel a little bit repressed. And what she says is the secret for is to love everything about her partner’s desires. Even if she can’t touch them. Even if it’s something that she doesn’t want to have any part of.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

So, give me an example.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Well, I asked her the most extreme example I could possibly think of because she was giving examples of like anal sex. You know like, what if he wants anal sex and I don’t? And I’m like, you know, ok, I can get that. She just loves the fact that he loves it even though she might not want it.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

I see.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Ok, I can get that was for–

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, yeah I get that too.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

So, I decided to take it to the most extreme I could. And I said, “What if he told you that he wanted to molest little kids?”

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

That’s extreme right there! That’s like felony extreme.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Exactly. I mean that would be the most, nobody would have wanted it. And what she said that he hadn’t–that was not his–

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, yeah I got it. It’s hypothetical

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

What she said was, “I would love him for having desire but we would have a very strong boundary about acting it out.” And she said that, everybody has creepy or horrible desires sometimes and if we bury them, they can grow into something we don’t want but if we just bring them to the light and acknowledge that we’ve all been a little weird sometimes, things just end up in a healthy place ultimately.

It’s the burying of things that doesn’t work. And so that’s their practice. Whenever they have a desire, no matter how scary it might be to admit, they bring it up. They talk about it. They love one another for it and then they put boundaries around it if it’s important to do that.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

And I think the important thing is it worked for them and it’s worked really well comparing to a woman who is not even attracted to him at all. Now, she’s probably very attracted to him.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Yeah and I think the second part of that, now that you’ve just said it again. For her it was understanding where do this desires come from. What is wounded in him that he would this thing that doesn’t work int reality? He didn’t actually have any weird ones like that but that would be what she would do. She would understand, where does that come from? And then she would know her partner deeper and that would create more intimacy.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

So, what was it about him at first that she wasn’t attracted to? I’m just curious for my own understanding.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

He’s just kind of a short dude with a round belly.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Ok, so it’s a looks type of thing?

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Yeah, it was a looks thing. She’s kind of a model archetype and she’d always been with–you know the way she described it, she’d always made her decisions on how to find men based on her body. Like pheromones or whatever.

She would choose guys based on who look the best and that’s who she would date and it never ended well. It just never ended well. And this guy, she fell inlove with him as a human being. I mean he’s a great guy.

They’re both fantastic people and they had so much in common and they’ve been working together for about a year and she was just falling and more and more inlove with him for who he was in the world, what he saw in her as a person.

And she said to herself one day,”I want to be able to choose who I’m attracted to because if my body is always leading me down on the path and you know, am I really a full human? That’s only part of who I am as a human, is my body. ”

And she wanted to take her entire self and make a choice and so she started–she told him what she was going to do about trying to become attracted to me and told her she was crazy.That would never work but she did and I tell you man, they are one of the most passionate couples I’ve ever met.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

So, it works really well for him. I think it really has to do with talking about the things that make you uncomfortable. That’s kind of the sense I’m getting. The therapy, the sex, all this things that are kind of society has placed this stereotypes on that are bad. Like there’s a problem or it’s embarrassing or something like that. Just being able to talk and have a healthy conversation with your partner about it. It’s a beautiful thing.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Yeah, yeah. Just everything it creates more depth. That isn’t one of the other issues I was going to mention for you but it is also true. What I saw in the divorce office was that people would often times never have talked about money, sex or kids before

getting married. And for me, that’s just a no brainer. I mean this are the three things that are the hardest to talk about I think in our culture. Sex for sure, we just covered that one. Money is the other one. Boy, is that  a dousey. People are just scared with their issues around money.

The kids, kids people think they’ve already got it handled and so they don’t bother talking about it but the truth is, people are all over the map with kids. Not just whether you want to have them but how are you going to raise them. And those are critical conversations to have in advance.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, we talked a little bit about that on our episode about how Jen and I, we talked about money, kids. We did talk about sex but that also made me think of another question. So, like what around sex? Specifically like, what you like, what your boundaries are, your past sexual history or all of the above?

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

All of that. What is most unlikely to change from the research. The research seems to suggest that’s what’s least likely to change is your taste in frequency. So, if there is a big, big mismatch on frequency desire, it’s ok. You can make it work.

People do but you just got to know you’re signing up for that, like that’s going to be a thing. And deep, deep sexual desires that we sometimes refer to as fetishes but that is a bad word in our culture or has a bad connotation that I don’t think is right. But deep, deep, sexual desires are probably also not going to change much.

You can change your reaction to them. You can change the boundaries around them but the actual deepest desire is probably not going to change too much. So, you’ve got to get clear on what those are and then there’s like kind of like the advanced work of opening up the deeper desires that you have that you haven’t talked to anybody about. And that’s just the process of building trust with your partner. You know, you just take baby steps. You talk about the easy stuff that you want and you know, you find out that your partner still loves you even though you wanted to go down on her and then it goes to another level and you just start getting a little bit more intimate with each other and building trust.
There are these sex quizzes online.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah. I’ve seen those. I’ve even taken a few. I’m not going to lie

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

They’re great because what they’ll do is, you take the quiz and then your partner takes the quiz and you both do it anonymously.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

I’ve done that with her right next to me before. Even before we got married, I think we did that over the phone like–

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

You did it together? Wow! Most people don’t have the courage to do that.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, we did it together and I remember I got to the sexual history part and I was like, I didn’t have much but she was a bit older so she had a little bit more and it was like embarrassing to talk about but I’m glad that we did. It’s one of those things that you have to be–

the sense I’m getting is you have to be willing to talk about this stuff. I think that maybe kind underlines the communication that you maybe people are talking about perhaps? Or maybe the communication that works for making a relationship work. You have to be able to talk about this stuff.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Because that builds trust. When you find out that you can talk to something that you were scared to talk about and your partner still loves you, you build trust. And there’s a lot of ways to build trust. Doing what you say you’re going to do and being there when you say you’re going to  be there also.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, this is a great way. It’s a phenomenal way. It’s something like, “I’ve never told anyone that before because I was afraid of how they’d react. ” But he or she reacted fine.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Right, right and it’s good for you as a human to finally realize it’s ok to have a particular desire. Sexual or otherwise, whatever it is. Just whatever you want. You want to be rich. You know you want to go live in Nebraska, whatever it is, to be honest with yourself that you want something.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

In Nebraska! Sorry I mean–

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

We drove through Nebraska. It was summer. It was so beautiful. I have to admit, I keep thinking about–

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

The Nebraska comment was–it got m

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Nobody’s going to admit they want to move to Nebraska but if they do, they’ll find out it’s amazing.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Sorry, sorry! I was just like processing it and then I just cracked a smile and then you reacted to it and I was like, “It was the Nebraska comment that got–

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

52:17 Anyway, it’s good for you as an individual to honor your desires and realize that there’s nothing wrong with you for whatever you want.

Yes, there are boundaries around your behaviour but your actual desires, your internal mechanism mentally, there’s nothing wrong with you for having that. And then to find out that your partner still loves you, also it’s phenomenally deepening.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, it feels good. You know it feels really good.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

And there’s ways that you are not able to talk about it. For whatever reason, it’s just how we all are and that’s the point of a therapist. Now, I will say that when you are in a good stage, you have to be really clear with the therapist about that because they’re used to couples only coming to them when things are bad.

So, if you’re going in for the tune up at good times, you have to say that and they approach it in a different way. But yeah, I mean, it’s just like a having a coach of exercise or just one of the things you got to do.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

I’m loving the analogies here. So, what are some other things. So, we have the conflict avoidance thing, we have the therapy.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Everybody wants to say, communication is key right? If you ever talk to a couple about why their successful like, “Well, we communicate.”  What does that even mean? Ok fine, it’s a word. I get it but you talk to each other? What does it really mean? And so, I’ve drilled a lot of people on that question to get down to the root of it.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

I think you even drilled us. I think Jen said it. She’s like big on that, communicating you know? It was a long interview so, I can’t remember if you did or not but I’m pretty sure you did and I’m pretty sure she said it

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Good. Good. Ok, I’ll have to highlight that when we post it. So, communication is key but what actually is it? From what everybody says, it’s going to manifest in different ways but when it comes down to, is that there’s something fundamental about who you are or what you’re up to in life or what you’re feeling.

You’ve got to be able to share that fact or that feeling without fear of being ashamed with your partner. And if you can’t share, you’re probably in the wrong relationship. There’s got to be safe space for expressing who you are, your true identity.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, I think that’s a phenomenal tip.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Let me say another piece to that, the nature of true identity. It’s kind of a misleading term. It changes all the time. You know, who we are, who we truly are is probably a spiritual question and answer. And who we are in this life that we’re living is an influx. You know, it’s like an ever flowing river.

So, it’s not just about communicating who you are today but the changes as well and that can be really scary because when you change, you might think, “Well here, she is not going to like this change and that might mean we’re going to lose the relationship and I love this relationship.”

So, a lot of people are reluctant to talk about the change but you’ve got to and if you can’t, there’s something missing in the relationship. And that’s your duty to make a clean space for you partner to share to.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, I think it’s a phenomenal tip. Not just for people going through break ups and trying to communicate with their exes but relationships in general. Because I feel like honestly it would be difficult if there was a massive change or something that was so far out of left field that you’d knew your partner was going to react negatively to.

Like you said, you’re worried about losing the relationship but maybe it serves as almost like a test. Like if something like that happens and if my partner wouldn’t allow me to share it, maybe I’m not with the right person.

So, maybe that’s something that people listening to this podcast, who are going through a break up, who are kind of on the fence on whether or not to get their ex back. If they can’t have that kind of sharing–I don’t know what word to use. Like an environment to share or something, maybe it’s not the best person to be with.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Yeah, because you’re never going to be able to fully blossom if you can’t share who you are and what you want. This manifest a lot around sexual desire. We had a couple on the show, who talked about the journey from not being attracted to one another at all

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Wow! That’s pretty interesting

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Yeah, it was intense. They were inlove. They were sort of intellectually realized that they loved one another but she just really wasn’t attracted to him. And couldn’t get over that hump and did some pretty profound work on what attraction meant to her and changed the way she looked at him and now they are hot and passionate on a level that blows my mind. And so, it’s a really interesting show. I won’t give away everything that she said about it but–

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Uh, any idea what episode that is or you can?

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Yeah, I can look it up as we’re talking or actually let me give it to you after the show and put it in the show notes. So, I won’t get distracted, because yeah, we get distracted. The point about that for me was one of our takeaways was this idea that we all have desires, sexual desires which are tough to talk about in this culture.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Very taboo now. It’s very taboo for anyone to even ask you a question. And I think it’s even worse like with family members too. Like you don’t–growing up I don’t think I ever, ever, ever talk to my parents about that.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Exactly! As a result of that, there’s so much shame about it but you know the truth is we’re all a little weird. We’re all a little weird. There’s no getting around it and if you can share that little bit of weirdness with your partner, your sex life is going to take off and your intimacy is going to take off.

If you can’t you’re always going to feel a little bit repressed. And what she says is the secret for is to love everything about her partner’s desires. Even if she can’t touch them. Even if it’s something that she doesn’t want to have any part of.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

So, give me an example.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Well, I asked her the most extreme example I could possibly think of because she was giving examples of like anal sex. You know like, what if he wants anal sex and I don’t? And I’m like, you know, ok, I can get that. She just loves the fact that he loves it even though she might not want it.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

I see.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Ok, I can get that was for–

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, yeah I get that too.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

So, I decided to take it to the most extreme I could. And I said, “What if he told you that he wanted to molest little kids?”

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

That’s extreme right there? That’s like felony extreme.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Exactly. I mean that would be the most, nobody would have wanted it. And what she said that he hadn’t–that was not his–

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, yeah I got it. It’s hypothetical.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

What she said was, “I would love him for having desire but we would have a very strong boundary about acting it out.” And she said that, everybody has creepy or horrible desires sometimes and if we bury them, they can grow into something we don’t want but if we just bring them to the light and acknowledge that we’ve all been a little weird sometimes, things just end up in a healthy place ultimately.

It’s the burying of things that doesn’t work. And so that’s their practice. Whenever they have a desire, no matter how scary it might be to admit, they bring it up. They talk about it. They love one another for it and then they put boundaries around it if it’s important to do that.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

And I think the important thing is it worked for them and it’s worked really well comparing to a woman who is not even attracted to him at all. Now, she’s probably very attracted to him.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Yeah and I think the second part of that, now that you’ve just said it again. For her it was understanding where do this desires come from. What is wounded in him that he would this thing that doesn’t work int reality? He didn’t actually have any weird ones like that but that would be what she would do. She would understand, where does that come from? And then she would know her partner deeper and that would create more intimacy.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

So, what was it about him at first that she wasn’t attracted to? I’m just curious for my own understanding.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

He’s just kind of a short dude with a round belly.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Ok, so it’s a looks type of thing?

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Yeah, it was a looks thing. She’s kind of a model archetype and she’d always been with–you know the way she described it, she’d always made her decisions on how to find men based on her body. Like pheromones or whatever. She would choose guys based on who look the best and that’s who she would date and it never ended well.

It just never ended well. And this guy, she fell inlove with him as a human being. I mean he’s a great guy. They’re both fantastic people and they had so much in common and they’ve been working together for about a year and she was just falling and more and more inlove with him for who he was in the world, what he saw in her as a person.

And she said to herself one day,”I want to be able to choose who I’m attracted to because if my body is always leading me down on the path and you know, am I really a full human? That’s only part of who I am as a human, is my body. ”

And she wanted to take her entire self and make a choice and so she started–she told him what she was going to do about trying to become attracted to me and told her she was crazy. That would never work but she did and I tell you man, they are one of the most passionate couples I’ve ever met.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

So, it works really well for him. I think it really has to do with talking about the things that make you uncomfortable. That’s kind of the sense I’m getting. The therapy, the sex, all this things that are kind of society has placed this stereotypes on that are bad. Like there’s a problem or it’s embarrassing or something like that. Just being able to talk and have a healthy conversation with your partner about it. It’s a beautiful thing.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Yeah, yeah. Just everything it creates more depth. That isn’t one of the other issues I was going to mention for you but it is also true. What I saw in the divorce office was that people would often times never have talked about money, sex or kids before getting married.

And for me, that’s just a no brainer. I mean this are the three things that are the hardest to talk about I think in our culture. Sex for sure, we just covered that one. Money is the other one. Boy, is that  a dousey. People are just scared with their issues around money.

The kids, kids people think they’ve already got it handled and so they don’t bother talking about it but the truth is, people are all over the map with kids. Not just whether you want to have them but how are you going to raise them. And those are critical conversations to have in advance.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, we talked a little bit about that on our episode about how Jen and I, we talked about money, kids. We did talk about sex but that also made me think of another question. So, like what around sex? Specifically like, what you like, what your boundaries are, your past sexual history or all of the above?

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

All of that. What is most unlikely to change from the research. The research seems to suggest that’s what’s least likely to change is your taste in frequency. So, if there is a big, big mismatch on frequency desire, it’s ok. You can make it work. People do but you just got to know you’re signing up for that, like that’s going to be a thing.

And deep, deep sexual desires that we sometimes refer to as fetishes but that is a bad word in our culture or has a bad connotation that I don’t think is right. But deep, deep, sexual desires are probably also not going to change much. You can change your reaction to them. You can change the boundaries around them but the actual deepest desire is probably not going to change too much.

So, you’ve got to get clear on what those are and then there’s like kind of like the advanced work of opening up the deeper desires that you have that you haven’t talked to anybody about. And that’s just the process of building trust with your partner. You know, you just take baby steps.

You talk about the easy stuff that you want and you know, you find out that your partner still loves you even though you wanted to go down on her and then it goes to another level and you just start getting a little bit more intimate with each other nad building trust.
There are these sex quizzes online.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah. I’ve seen those. I’ve even taken a few. I’m not going to lie.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

They’re great because what they’ll do is, you take the quiz and then your partner takes the quiz and you both do it anonymously.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

I’ve done that with her right next to me before. Even before we got married, I think we did that over the phone like–

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

You did it together? Wow! Most people don’t have the courage to do that.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, we did it together and I remember I got to the sexual history part and I was like, I didn’t have much but she was a bit older so she had a little bit more and it was like embarrassing to talk about but I’m glad that we did.

It’s one of those things that you have to be–the sense I’m getting is you have to be willing to talk about this stuff. I think that maybe kind underlines the communication that you maybe people are talking about perhaps? Or maybe the communication that works for making a relationship work. You have to be able to talk about this stuff.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Because that builds trust. When you find out that you can talk to something that you were scared to talk about and your partner still loves you, you build trust. And there’s a lot of ways to build trust. Doing what you say you’re going to do and being there when you say you’re going to  be there also.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, this is a great way. It’s a phenomenal way. It’s something like, “I’ve never told anyone that before because I was afraid of how they’d react. ” But he or she reacted fine.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Right, right and it’s good for you as a human to finally realize it’s ok to have a particular desire. Sexual or otherwise, whatever it is. Just whatever you want. You want to be rich. You know you want to go live in Nebraska, whatever it is, to be honest with yourself that you want something

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

In Nebraska! Sorry I mean–

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

We drove through Nebraska. It was summer. It was so beautiful. I have to admit, I keep thinking about–

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

The Nebraska comment was–it got me.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Nobody’s going to admit they want to move to Nebraska but if they do, they’ll find out it’s amazing.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Sorry, sorry! I was just like processing it and then I just cracked a smile and then you reacted to it and I was like, “It was the Nebraska comment that got-

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

52:17 Anyway, it’s good for you as an individual to honor your desires and realize that there’s nothing wrong with you for whatever you want. Yes, there are boundaries around your behaviour but your actual desires, your internal mechanism mentally, there’s nothing wrong with you for having that. And then to find out that your partner still loves you, also it’s phenomenally deepening.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, it feels good. You know it feels really good.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

And you have to know that maybe, maybe your partner can’t be with that thing but if they can still— I think you have to take the risk for the break up might happen is what I’m trying to say.

This is an extreme example but when you share something really scary, you have to know that maybe your partner won’t be able to be with that thing but there’s still something powerful in you’re being able to admit it, to own it and if your partner is emotionally intelligent in this way, they’ll still love you and respect you.

You guys just might not be a match and that, that is the best possible insight to find out that you’re still ok but you’re not a match. It’s wonderful because then you can go find somebody with who you are a match.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

And you’ve dealt with people who aren’t a match. So, you’ve seen how divorce process can rip people apart and you’ve kind of seen the other end of where they maybe understood they weren’t a match but stayed together.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

And I’ve seen it where they stayed together and it doesn’t work and even the better thing is when they break and then they’re happier afterwards. That’s what always is phenomenal and really amazing to me is to see how after people deal with the heartbreak and the upset and anger around losing money because it’s always issue in a divorce, they always end up happier.

They’re always happier. If they always do the emotional work, they’re always happier. If they don’t do the emotional work, that’s a whole other thing.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Well, you know we can probably talk for hours. Seriously, it’s just a so stimulating conversation with you but we’re coming up on an hour and I don’t want to bore people here. So, tell us a little bit about where everyone can find you because we definitely want to send you listeners because you have awesome insights.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Thanks brother!

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Definitely I want to share with everyone who comes to exboyfriend recovery.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Yeah come listen to the podcast. I love, love, love to know what your listeners think of the show. So, you can find our website together.guide. That’s .-G-U-I-D-E and at that website you can see our online magazine which is all about relationships and links to a podcast or you can go directly to Itunes and type in together and you’ll see a picture of a kissing couple and I’ll say, “Together, a podcast of our relationships.” And that’s our show. So, yeah come listen. I would love to know what you guys think about it.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, yeah. I just can’t say enough good things about his podcast because it’s the kind–and I don’t listen to many relationship podcast because I’m researching psychological reactance all day long. You know like stuff like that. This is the kind of thing that I listen to. It’s that good and plus I was on it so–

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Yeah! That’s going to be a great show. I don’t have a date for you yet. I think we’re going to be releasing it in late November or mid November. So, I’ll let you know as soon as we got a date.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, when you do, just let me know. I’ll make sure I’ll promote it to my audience through the email list and everything because I’m pretty sure they’ll be interested in hearing that

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

It’s a nice insight into your relationship. You guys are a sweet couple

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Thanks! And also your magazine, before we go. We got a couple more minutes. Why don’t you talk a little bit about that because I was actually interested in how it worked. Did you have all this anonymous writers writing? Or do you have a like a group of writers that write for you? Because it’s really good content and obviously the website is gorgeous.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Well, we decided that instead of just having a blog where I would write, I was writing a lot but we wanted to broaded to something with a little bit more,–I don’t know, more depth.

And so, I found an editor who’s been a long time editor for magazines all over the country and she went out and started sourcing journalists who have this really personal narratives about their experiences and what they’ve learned in relationships.

And so the magazine is the collection of some of the insights that I’ve gained through the various things I’ve done, I’ve just released a series called “The Divorce Lawyer’s Guide to Marriage.”

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

I saw it. It’s very, very, very comprehensive, very good.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Yeah, 57:09 I hope it was good.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

It was good. It was really, really good. There was like to it I think right?

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Four

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Even more comprehensive than I thought

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Yeah, so that but then also, just this really touching stories from people about things they’ve gone through. We’ve had stories about people who weren’t able to get pregnant and what that did to their relationship and how they recovereed from it. Today we released a story about how to deal with PMS.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah I saw it.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

We’ve had stories about polyamory, how couples are learning to navigate open relationships. And on the opposite of the spectrum, stories from deeply christian couples who talk about monogamy and how to make that work. It’s all about relationships, romantic relationships-how to make them work. What does it take–

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Skill. It takes skill.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Humbleness. I would say humbleness.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

ok, humbless. I say skill. I’m just blown away. I honestly think that your website is going to blow up. I seriously think that like–when did you guys launch? It’s pretty recent like his year right?

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Yeah, February 14th.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Ok, so, you’re not even a year old yet but you guys, you got the look but I honestly think that it’s going to blow up like your podcast is going to get super popular. The magazine aspect, you guys need to check this out. It is on par with the content that I produce. It’s really, really good.

And it’s interesting, you have a lot of different broad topics and everything but there are a lot–they’re from the heart I guess, is the way I want to say it. Like you mentioned, they willing to open up about this really hard things.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

We didn’t want to go for the fluffy kind of listacles and the top 7 ways of this and that. We just really wanted to go deep.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

That is like all there is. It’s like I think Bustle. You know Bustle and Elite Daily, they all have those lists that really show well in Facebook but they’re not–they don’t really get to the details. I honestly think you’re going to blow up.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Thanks for saying that. I really appreciate it. I appreciate the feedback and the really kind words. We put our heart and souls into it.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

I can tell it means a lot to you as well. Like it’s kind of your passion.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

I love couples. I love couples and relationships and just I love all the way crazy weirdt things that happen in people’s relationships. I think togetherness relating to other human beings is the core of what it means to be a human.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, I would agree with that.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

And maturing that way is how we’ll save ourselves as a species.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Well, do you have anything else you want to add?

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Thank you! And just really, thanks for having me on the show. It’s such a pleasure to talk with you and the episode we have of you coming up is going to be the great one.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, it’s pretty good. I’ll make sure I’ll promote to my following and everything because I’m pretty sure, they’ll like to hear all of the crazy stuff that I go on and on about. What was it, a billion dollar or enlightenment or something

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Yeah, that was a funny one. That was good. Yeah and the high school tennis coach. That’s a good story.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Oh yeah, the highschool thing

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Yeah, we wouldn’t say anymore because we want to leave a little bit of mystery.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

The breadcrumbs have been sprinkled. Follow it to this website.

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Thanks again. I really appreciate having me on the show man. It’s a really good to talk to you.

Chris Seiter

Chris Seiter

Yeah, it’s a blast! Take care!

Erik Newton

Erik Newton

Cheers!

October 4, 2016

"I Can't Believe I Actually Have a Chance of Getting Him Back!"

With over 7 million women just like you coming to this site ever year, I’ve seen about every situation you could imagine. Most of the time, I can just ask a few questions about your situation and know in seconds the chances that you have of getting back together with him. I’ve compressed all of that wisdom into a single calculator What Are Your Chances of Getting Your ExBoyfriend Back.

Take 4 Minute QuizAnd Find Out Your Chances!

What Do You Think? (8)

  1. Jane - 0

    Jane

    Me and my ex start talking after the 30 days no contact. He still loves me but not the same as before the breakup. Right now, he only wants us as a friend with benefit and wanted to date other people. What shall I do?

    Reply
    • Chris Seiter - 4

      EBR Team Member: Amor

      Hi Jane,

      refuse.. that’s not who you are. Remember your standards. How many days have you been talking since the end of nc? I think you need to a last one, if he’s still like after this second one, move on.

  2. Juli - 0

    Juli

    This isn’t really about this post I didn’t know how else to contact you. I just wanted to ask if this pro program work for basically any situation and can I use PayPal

    Reply
    • Chris Seiter - 4

      EBR Team Member: Amor

      Hi Juli

      currently we dont have Paypal yet.. The exboyfriend recovery pro covers the most common reasond like general break up, cheating and long distance

  3. Jenna - 0

    Jenna

    Hi I dated my boyfriend for 2.5 years after breaking up we talked back and forth this summer and hung out. we went 25 days with no contact. during no contact ive been working on myself cooking cleaning reorganizing working out being with friends. I even switched my shift as a nurse from nights to days to aid in my health part of the trinity. My coworkers and friends and even strangers have told me I’m glowing. This weekend after 25 days we saw each other at a bar not once but 3 days in a row. He talked to me all three times. He was drinking but we were smiling ear to ear flirting. He asked me to touch his face and smell it because he bought new shaving cream and the next night I told him I liked his shirt he said he knew when he was getting dressed if he saw me tonight I’d say something about the shirt. The next night he complimented me on my bun my flannel and even commented on my boobs. When he was leaving he came up to me and told me where he was going and with who almost like he was checking in like we were dating. I was feeling really good about all of our positive randon encounters (all at different bars). Hes friend pulled me aside and told me how when my ex gets drunk he tells this friend that he still loves me but wants to finish school( hes done in 8 weeks) he said he always has me in the back of his mind and doesn’t have any interest in other girls. I didn’t text him after any of our sightings. Something hed think i would normally do. Unfortunately my little brother had a seizure a day after we saw each other and I text my ex. He responded to me just saying his name within 15secs. I told him what was going on. He reassured me and then the next morning double texted me after I didn’t respond to his first text. We chatted for a bit. His response time was quick but the word count was less than mine. He didn’t seem as into it but I think he was at work or school. I followed what the book said and didn’t text him at all today. What do you think? Was this good? Should I go back to no contact? I’m a little nervous that he needs more time. Should I send a funny picture that relates to an inside joke for the next text?

    Reply
    • Chris Seiter - 4

      EBR Team Member: Amor

      Hi Jenna,
      You’re doing great.. You don’t have to back in no contact just rest in texting in a day or two.. That’s good idea for the next too

  4. Chris - 0

    Chris

    Thanks Chris for the great interview. I look forward to checking out his website and podcast!

    Reply

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