Today we’re going to be talking about pretty much everything that you can imagine relating to flirting.

If you stick around until the end of this article with Coach Anna and I, we’re going to talk to you about;

  • The science of flirting
  • The different types of flirting
  • The dos and don’ts of flirting.
  • The flirt friendzone flirt method
  • Flirting in person and flirting via text.

This sort of outline was not formed by me. It was formed by Anna who has a lot to share here and we’re just going to organically have a conversation about these things.

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Chris:

What do you think we should talk about first? That’s our talking points there.

Anna:
I think the lead in that it was really about fear of loss, right?

Chris:
Jealousy a little bit.

Anna:
Little jealousy. You talk about this a lot in the program. It’s pretty much a course when we think of what we talk about when coaching which is you cannot get an ex back if they do not believe they have lost you.

Chris:
Weirdly enough, when I’m outlining YouTube videos lately, the one thing that I’ve been harping on lately is I feel like it’s not even enough to make them feel like they lost you. I feel like they feel they have to feel like they lost you and regret their decision to break up with you. I think creating regret is a key component to the whole get-your-ex-back strategy.

Anna:
Creating regret, one of the first things that we do to create regret or to generate what we call fear of loss is using social media or band or sphere of influence correctly. When we post on social media, well, one of the first things that people need to realize is they should not drastically change their posting frequencies, meaning they should not post a lot more or post a lot less because any significant changes signals anyone who’s looking at your social media that something is going on. The last thing you want, and it certainly does not support this idea of generating loss or regret, is that makes the anyone looking at social media think, “Okay, there’s a story here. Something’s going on. There’s a purpose behind this increase or decrease.” It makes them trust what you post far less or don’t post, right? We don’t need to have that.

Chris:
The only thing I’ll say here to build off is I have a recent personal example in my own personal life where this happened.

Anna:
Oh, yeah?

Chris:
One of my best friends growing up, we haven’t been in touch in a very long time. It’s like one of those high school friendships that you have that you move away and just lose touch for whatever reason, but him and I were just thick as thieves back in the day and he made a really odd post. He made something along the lines like his posting habits changed. He made an odd post about how 2020 being a really difficult year. Now, that’s an obvious statement to make obviously with the COVID things, but I read more into it and I got to talk to him and learned that he actually was going through a divorce.

Chris:
This can really show you what Anna’s talking about if you change your posting habits and I think a lot of times people either stop posting altogether or they overdo the posting. People around you are going to start prying about like, “Hey, what’s going on?” just like I did to my buddy there.

Anna:
Was your friend okay or is he doing better now or are you more in touch with him now?

Chris:
I’ve always tried to take a high road when I get back in touch with him. I got the sense he was not wanting to talk about. I also think he knows what I do for a living, but it’s also one of those topics where we’ve never ever talked about it. He’s always just felt like he could do everything on his own. I get the sense he’s not okay, but you cannot force someone to talk to you about things when they’re not ready. It just is what it is, but it’s a great example of social media posting habits, making people realize there’s more to this story.

Anna:
There’s either something wrong or you’re trying to get someone’s attention and so everything you’re posting is not genuine.

Chris:
Right.

Anna:
You need to avoid both scenarios. Then when you are again trying to generate regret or fear of loss, the next thing you need to do is look at what is it in general when you’re posting. We talk about in this program all the time and again also with the coaching and within the Facebook group about the trinity, health, wealth and relationships. I often tell coaching clients, “I want you to post at least five things a month and post it to your stories as well,” which is you need to make at least one health post, one wealth post, one relationships post, right? I think it’s important to talk about relationships because so many people that come to the group or into coaching often tend to have exhibited anxious behavior before the breakup or after the breakup. You want to demonstrate that you’re no longer as anxious, all right? Relationships come into play.

Anna:
If you’re posting a lot of things with friends and family or if you’re doing volunteer work or raising money for some good cause, it’s difficult to see a person like that as being overly anxious or pleading or begging or super needy if you’re such a big heart that you’re giving to other people, right?

Chris:
Yeah. The only thing I’d have to say about the holy trinity is that one thing … This is actually something that I’ve been trying to take my own advice on. When I talked about the holy trinity way back in 2012 or 2013, whenever I started Ex Boyfriend Recovery, it was something that I really adhered to, but then just circumstances and life change. It’s hard to get that perfect balance. One thing I’ve been having a lot of trouble with and maybe you can highlight why the holy trinity, it needs to be almost a lifelong pursuit or a lifelong paradigm shift in the way you look at things.

Chris:
Lately, I am able to do really well on two of the three facets. Yesterday for example, I did really, really well with my relationships, meaning I got a lot of family time with my wife and daughter. I did really, really well on getting work done. I did not have enough time to go work out. Today, it’s the opposite. Today, I got some time to work out and I’ve been working for wealth and everything, but I haven’t had as much time with my family. I think a lot of times you need to be able to always be putting forth the effort of hitting this holy trinity. It’s okay if you can’t get it perfect every single day. What matters is that you’re trying to get it perfect every single day. Anna’s suggestion-

Anna:
Or every week. Overall, just say, “I did some stuff for wealth, for health and for relationships this week.”

Chris:
What has helped me specifically lately, and this is something for 2021, I was like, “This is something I need to do a better job of.” I feel like I’m always out of balances. There’s this app, or not an app, but a website called Clockify and it allows you to clock in and clock out, so I can literally time how much time I’m spending working versus working out, spending time with my family. I can see like, “Okay, this area is getting a lot more of my time. I need to shift some of that time over here, so I can achieve that balance.” You always feel good at the end of the day when you do achieve a balance, but it’s always it’s a difficult thing. Don’t give up if it’s not perfect right away, I guess, is my point.

Anna:
Trinity, as you said is a lifelong endeavor, right? It’s not going to be very good for your trinity, if you get really down on yourself because you didn’t do something for your health, wealth and relationships all in one day. What matters is you sit down and you say, “Okay, these are the overall goals I have,” let’s just say, “for a moment for my health, wealth and relationships.” All that matters is if I look at it on a weekly basis, am I doing enough to hit those goals? If it looks like I’m not going to hit those goals, then perhaps I need to change the timeline of my goals. “Maybe I should need to accomplish all this by the end of February instead of the end of January, right?”

Anna:
To me no contact and building rapport at least the personal side of it for coaching clients is about being kind to yourself because you’re not going to get anywhere if you’re really hard on yourself.

Chris:
That’s, that’s so true. Most of the clients that we see are not kind to themselves, unfortunately. Like you said, you hit it really right on the head, a lot of them are exhibiting these anxious type of behaviors and that’s okay. Sometimes you need to just take a step back a little bit, but her suggestion of posting to hit the trinity of the five things, that is one of the best pieces of advice you can ever get on social media.

Anna:
I get a lot of clients who often say, “I never post on social media.” I said, “Okay, I get it. Can you at least make five posts in a month? That’s literally one post every 5.5 days or 6.5 days, something along those lines. You can do that.” They’re like, “Yeah, I can do that.” That’s all you have to do. There’s health, wealth and relationships and the reason why I say five is because I add on to others for coaching clients. Now I guess because work is going to be on YouTube, it’s for all of you who are watching, right? The other ones, you want to have at least one post that show that you and your ex are similar, right? This is talking about the 11 levers of re-attraction.

Chris:
I don’t want to interrupt the momentum you got here because it’s super good, but I was inspired. The last interview we did for YouTube, you had mentioned how that’s a staple in your coaching calls. You’re always telling people about those 11 factors. I, yesterday, filmed a professional video, really highlighting it, so that you can maybe give people at least something really well produced other than a really crappy produced video.

Anna:
I have a PDF that sometimes I give people, but that’s about it. This is really good. I’ll be able to point them to that now, but the 11 levers, and then to demonstrate similarity and familiarity, basically what you want your ex to see when he or she looks at your social media, you want him or her to think, “Wow. If we were still together, I would be at his or her side smiling and enjoying that activity as well.” What’s an example of that? The Rose Bowl picture, my Rose Bowl text that you-

Chris:
If you were listening to our last interview, we spent maybe 15 minutes talking about this one text that she sent.

Anna:
Just to give a recap of this text, it was someone that I was spending time with, flew me as a surprise to the Rose Bowl because the University of Georgia was playing in the Rose Bowl against someone who I think lost, but anyway, I took a picture of, it wasn’t even a selfie, I just took a great picture. You could see the Goodyear Blimp in the background. You can see a sea of red because the Georgia Bulldogs and you can see the football field. It was a fantastic photo. In it, I captioned it with, “Guess where I am?” It’s the ultimate jealousy photo. [crosstalk 00:12:26].

Chris:
This text was so powerful, I talked about it maybe four years after it’s been sent. It was a really good text. I guess is what I’m saying. It’s actually what inspired us to do this video, I think, because I think that’s where the fear of loss jealousy thing came in when I was taking the notes on it. It was like, “Hey, what were we talking about? Oh, yeah, this is what I’d …” It was probably inspired by that text. We’re turning it into flirting a little bit because there is a little flirtatious aspect to the text, but that poor guy who took you, he’s trying everything he can and you’re just sitting there texting your ex with this Rose Bowl thing. Anna.

Anna:
We weren’t committed.

Chris:
I know. I’m just giving you a hard time. A girl’s got to do what a girl’s got to do. When you’re a free agent-

Anna:
There’s more than one way to skin a cat, right?

Chris:
Exactly.

Anna:
I have no qualms about that. I actually was very happy and I’m still very happy. There you are. That’s what you want to do on your social media. You want to create this sense of that you’re out and about, doing amazing things, and that if you were still together, they would be enjoying that with you, hence my Rose Bowl picture.

Chris:
It really ties back to what we’re saying about regret. What she’s talking about is she sends this text to this guy who she is literally saying like, “Guess where I am?” then she’s got the showing of the Rose Bowl, right? He’s going to sit there and think, “That could have been me next to her. I could have been there with her.”

Anna:
“Anna is the coolest chick ever.”

Chris:
Of course, here I am empathizing or sympathizing with the poor guy who actually took you to the Rose Bowl.

Anna:
You’re such a good guy.

Chris:
I guess. I guess so. We’ll take that. That text rocked.

Anna:
That’s a good example that you could use both in social media and when building rapport as well, right? It’s that idea.

Chris:
The idea that I’ve been attached to lately is how I think most of the clients that I interact with seem to be under the assumption that you almost need to compartmentalize the parts of the strategy or the program. There’s the no contact rule and then there’s the texting phase, but I always think, at least the longer I’ve done this, there’s almost a synergy between everything, right? When she’s talking about during the social media … We’re talking about social media, right? You do that during the no contact rule, but you don’t stop doing that when you hit the texting phase. It all bleeds into everything that you do. There’s a synergy. It all works together.

Chris:
While we’re talking about flirting, this is an essential component, I think, of flirting already which is the background stuff that you are indirectly speaking to your ex.

Anna:
Right. Because in order to flirt effectively, you have to have some sensation of loss or regret. You need to generate that. We don’t just generate loss through our interactions with our exes. We generate loss through social media and sphere of influence, all right? Because we’re not talking to our exes during no contact, we still can generate the fear of loss through social media and through sphere of influence, right?

Chris:
Let’s give a rundown for newbies here. We’re on YouTube, so it’s not like we’re talking in a Facebook Live to our clients and everything. What is the sphere of influence, Anna?

Anna:
Sphere of influence is anyone that can influence what your ex thinks, says or does, all right? For example, coworkers, family, friends, mutual friends. Normally, most people should have at least a connection to one member of their ex’s sphere of influence. There’s very rarely have I encountered a person who says, “I have never met anyone that my ex has ever worked with, friends with or a family member.” Very rarely.

Chris:
This is actually also covered in those 11 factors which is social influence, I think, is what I titled it, but essentially, that is part of the sphere of influence. I actually really feel this is an underrated aspect of getting exes back.

Anna:
[crosstalk 00:17:08]?

Chris:
No, the sphere of influence. A lot of people just overlook and think, “Oh, that’s not important,” but I actually disagree. I think it is really important.

Anna:
It is very important. If we were to look at it in marketing terms, because you know that I like to look at-

Chris:
Mrs. PR.

Anna:
Chris or anyone who’s listening to this, are you more likely to pay attention to an ad or if your friend is telling you the same thing? If Amazon were to say, “Hey, you need to go buy this thing?” you’re like, “Okay, that’s an ad. Maybe,” but if your friend said, “This thing is better than sliced bread,” you’d be like, “Huh, maybe I should buy it,” right? That’s what sphere of influence is, okay? Social media is an ad essentially.

Chris:
It is. It is eyeballs.

Anna:
Sphere of influence is word of mouth. Your sphere of influence is your word of mouth that you act. Do you 100% trust?

Chris:
Yeah, you’re absolutely right about you trust your friend’s opinion more than some random ad on TV. Oftentimes, I’ll see someone I know playing a game or something and I’m like, “Oh, that looks cool. That’s interesting. What is that?” and then you get into it all of a sudden.

Anna:
Right.

Chris:
That’s the power of the sphere of influence.

Anna:
100%.

Chris:
I’ve seen this happen and I’m sure you have to where you have an ex … Actually one of your clients who I interviewed for a success story on the YouTube channel was talking to me about how … She had really good relationship with the ex’s sphere of influence and that sphere of influence is just berating the ex with like, “Why did you break up with her? Why did you do this? Why did you do this?” and then when they’re on dates, they’re like, “Wow, you guys should be together.” It all helps.

Anna:
Sphere of influence, if you can get enough people in your ex’s sphere of influence to be “on your side”, it ends up being social proof, right? Meaning you have so many people that you trust that are validating this choice. If you have sphere of influence, you would be doing yourself a disservice to not leverage that well, essentially.

Chris:
I feel like every time you talk, it’s like one of those mic drops.

Anna:
You’re funny.

Chris:
You make such good points and then you just pause and I’m just like, “I don’t know if there’s anything I can add. That’s it.”

Anna:
Sphere of influence is key. To me, it’s one of the most powerful.

Chris:
I actually look at as one of the most underrated because I don’t think people … At least what I notice is in the Facebook group, not a lot of people talk about it. They always obsess about the hot topics which is no contact rule, texting or even flirting like we’re talking about here, but as you’re getting the sense, there’s a synergy between everything that we’re talking about and eventually getting to the flirting and the regret that we’re trying to help you create.

Anna:
Right. To me, that’s hand in hand, subtle jealousy, sphere of influence, using social media wisely. People often ask about, “To what extent do I use jealousy?” and always this is where you need to understand, is your ex an introvert or an extrovert, right? The more introverted that your ex is, the more subtle the jealousy should be. An introvert or extrovert is not about, “Oh, he or she loves to be around people.” That’s not what introversion is about or extraversion. It is about, “How do they feel rested? What do they need in order to feel recharged?”

Anna:
For example, I am an extreme extrovert. If you were to do a coaching session with me, it’s better to catch me at the end of the day or in the evening because that’s what I’m most alive. My first sessions in the morning are just I feel like I’m very dim light bulb, but by the end of the day, I’m just like, “I am ready to go.” The more people I’m around, the better, the more alive I feel and I think you have described yourself as an introvert in the past, haven’t you?

Chris:
Yeah, I feel like I’m definitely introverted who can be extroverted at times, but I always prefer to look inward instead of outward to recharge, I guess. Usually if you catch me on a party which I haven’t been to in three years, but if I were to go to a party, you would look at me as a very positive individual, but I don’t feel comfortable. I feel most comfortable when I’m alone and in my routine and patterns and reading a book or something like that. That’s when I feel most alive, but it’s just interesting how … I’m actually interested to see what you’re going to circle around with the jealousy thing, with the introvert and extrovert thing.

Anna:
Right. As an extreme extrovert, I just am going, going, going all the time. You literally have to hit me over the head almost with jealousy. It has to be very obvious. An ex would have a new girl sitting on his lap with … Gosh, sitting on his lap-

Chris:
Was there something with an iguana one time? Jen was telling me about some iguana or some lizard, some x or something doing … I don’t remember.

Anna:
In the group?

Chris:
No, with you, with one of your exes trying to make you jealous. There was some … I don’t know.

Anna:
My exes try to make me jealous all the time, but because I don’t pay attention, again, you have to hit me over the head sort of thing. I’d probably not remember-

Chris:
This is case in point right here. She’s an extrovert. You have to hit her over the head. I can actually speak for the introvert side of things. You don’t have to hit me over the head. I will notice.

Anna:
For example, the arm in the corner of the picture would work on you.

Chris:
Maybe not the arm in the corner. I think what would probably work on me is if you’re taking a picture, holding one at class or you’re on a “date” with someone, you see there’s clearly a person eating there that looks like a male. I’m just like, “What is that?” That is not something that I thought up actually. That was actually one of the very first coaching clients that I ever took told me the story of how her ex reacted to this picture. It was like, “Hey, could you show me that picture?” I just ran with it. It seems to be a very successful subtle way of doing the jealousy thing, but obviously it can backfire if your ex doesn’t handle jealousy well.

Anna:
I think a good subtle jealousy photo that a client of mine used or had is that she went to a car show. She was in texting phase and her ex loves cars. He also loves Spider Man. There was a Spider Man car and she got the guy that she went with to the car show to take a picture of her next to the Spider Man car. Then she sent a picture of herself next to the car and her ex said, “Who did you go with?” She said, “Oh, it’s just a friend.” Later on, he said that he thought that she was on a date because he knows that she would not go to a car show alone. Who brings a girl to a car show unless most likely you’re a guy or on a date or trying to impress this girl?

Chris:
Yeah, I also think it’s really underrated that she said, “Oh, it’s just a friend,” because to me, that’s code, it’s like, “Oh, I’m on a date, but I don’t want to hurt your feelings,” and I think that’s how most people read it like, “Oh, yeah, it’s just a friend,” but yeah, that’s a great car show example.

Anna:
She didn’t use that to flirt with him a little bit. If we get into talking about flirting, I think a key point in flirting is that normally you’re tapping into this idea of desire or want or there’s a loss or a gap somehow in the other person’s emotional landscape in a way. If you flirt, you’re basically, I think, signaling interest or traction and mutual awareness. I think that really good flirting requires a lot of skills, intelligence, body language, creativity and empathy. It takes a lot to develop your flirting skills. I think there’s all kinds of flirting.

Chris:
Do you think it’d be easier to break it down like, “Okay, there’s flirting via text and there’s flirting via the phone, then there’s flirting via in person. There’s different ways you can employ flirting and those different mediums of conversation”? Do you want to just go through each one?

Anna:
Yeah, we can-

Chris:
Let’s go with what people really want to hear and that’s texting because that’s the most common type of question we’re going to get.

Anna:
Well, in my opinion, to flirt via text, you need to first initiate, right? A harmless positive fun text isn’t going to make you look desperate. Flirting is a two-way street and someone has to initiate, so you’ve got to initiate that, right?

Chris:
Let’s just concoct a scenario. Let’s say you’re texting a guy and you want to flirt with him. What is the best way to initiate that type of conversation?

Anna:
Well, I love flirting. I probably would use a sweet or a funny opener, not just, “Hi,” or, “How are you?” or, “What are you doing?” because I think that’s super awkward. Some things that I have used in the past have included, “Oh, my God, your last tweet was hilarious,” right? I started off with that by complimenting and what guy doesn’t like being complimented? Another one that I’ve used is, “Oh, my God, your IG story where you were sleeping,” and then I put the laughing face, right? It causes the person to respond back to you like, “Oh, yeah?” and then you can go on from there or, “Oh, my gosh, that song from your favorite band was on the radio yesterday and now I can’t get it out of my head,” right?

Anna:
I think you should always use a funny or sweet opener. We often talk about that as a hook, but when it comes to flirting, you need to make it less hook-like and more just spontaneous that says, “I’m aware of what you’re into and I’ve been watching and something about what I just saw triggered thoughts of you, which caused me to reach out to you.”

Chris:
The only addition I would say is what I find works really well as you’re a couple, you have these inside jokes. If you can spontaneously say like, “Oh, my God, I was driving down the street and I saw a hot air balloon,” that was my wife and I’s big thing. That’s all I got.

Anna:
That’s how you propose, isn’t it?

Chris:
I have a funny story about that. Yes and no, it’s a complicated … I propose before that, but people … The hot air balloon ride was part of the proposal essentially. It was like a trip to Paris and a hot air balloon ride. I’m sorry if you guys are getting bored and listening to this, but I promise it will make sense somehow as we get back. Anyways, a month goes by after she’s already accepted proposal and that was when we were going to do our hot air balloon ride. We’re doing the hot air balloon ride. It’s a private one, so it was just mem, her and the guy that’s doing the hot air, the captain, I guess. We land the hot air balloon right in the backyard of a neighborhood and they’re having this gigantic birthday for this seven-year-old kid.

Chris:
All the people came out because it’s like, “Wow, look, there’s a hot air balloon that’s just landing here randomly.” All the kids thought it was really great, but the parents who were there were asking … They almost like assumed that I proposed on the hot air balloon ride, but I didn’t. Jen and I, we were just too tired to explain like, “No.” We just went with it. Everyone’s like, “Show me the ring.” That’s that, but the hot air balloon ride was something that was big for us, so a spontaneous way, it was an inside joke. You’re almost like, “Wow, you’re not going to believe it. I saw a hot air balloon.” That can be an interesting in to hit that inside joke. Probably don’t do something like that. That’s a little romantic, but maybe if you have a funny inside joke that you do that might be a good in.

Anna:
My husband and I, we are we flirt all the time, but our inside joke is about pandas because I do believe that my spirit animal is a panda. He’s constantly finding stuff about pandas and the other day saw something in the store that was an angry panda, but it was on the outside of a toolkit for some reason. I’m like, “You just don’t want to make pandas angry or else they’ll just mess you up somehow.” Anyway, that’s us, but back to texting and flirting, one of the things you want to write is you want to use emojis and you want to be really careful about your word choice because what you’re trying to do is play with the imagination, tempt your ex in a way.

Anna:
There’s a difference between writing the following two sentences, “We should hang out together. It will be a lot of fun,” no emojis, right? That’s really boring. That’s not flirtatious. That’s awkward.

Chris:
That’s direct.

Anna:
Flirting is often indirect stuff, right? You’re trying to leave things open to the imagination, right? To turn that around into a more flirtatious way, it would be to say, “We should hang out some time. There’s a lot of fun stuff we can do together. That’s more interesting,” with a smiley face.

Chris:
The only addition I would have is I’ve found the best flirting-type text message always seems to be … Like she said, open to the imagination, but there’s almost like a double meaning behind it because a guy will read the text message and they’ll be like, “Did she mean that or did she mean this other thing?” That’s a good conversation you want them to be having. This is what happened to me a lot when I was texting with Jen. It was a lot of just like, “Does she mean this? Is it this?” and you just have to pick one and go in.

Anna:
I was constantly teasing my husband when we were dating. I would text him stuff like, because in my personal time, I’m notoriously late, right? I would text him stuff quite often, “Why do I always do this?” and he’d say, “What?” I’d say, “I forget to do my laundry and now I’m running around looking for something to wear.” He would be like, “Wait, are you not wearing anything?” and I was like, “I can’t talk right now. I have to work with myself.”

Chris:
That’s actually pretty good. That’s really good.

Anna:
Obviously, it works, but again there’s some more obvious stuff like, “Thanks for coming with me to the store,” which he has done before. It’s like, “I’m not trying on some of those new dresses,” or, “God, I’m so clumsy,” and he’ll say, “What did you do?” I’d say, “I spilled water all over my shirt while I was texting you.”

Chris:
[inaudible 00:33:51] a lot.

Anna:
That’s good.

Chris:
Jen, when we first met, we were texting like crazy people back and forth, but I got so intense into trying to understand, “What does she mean?” like that meme of Always Sunny in Philadelphia, the guy trying to make sense of it. That was me. I literally pulled out a notebook one day and I went through all of our texts from the beginning and like, “Okay, how many times has she texted me? What can this possibly mean?” I’m like, “I’m a breakup coach. I should understand this stuff.”

Anna:
Look what she’s doing to me.

Chris:
I’ll tell you what Jen used to do because what she used to do is going to be a lot more applicable to the phone conversations because that’s, I think, where we really started flirting back and forth, but is there any more texting flirting tips that we could-

Anna:
I think complimenting and I think one that a lot of people will want to know which is how to handle naughty replies because flirting can get into the area of sexting. You just need to understand if you’re going to tempt an ex, your ex is likely to respond in a directly sexual or naughty way. You have to be prepared to remain flirty but not dirty. You have to understand how to handle-

Chris:
That’s a great … Did you come up with that?

Anna:
Yeah.

Chris:
Are you sure?

Anna:
Yeah.

Chris:
That’s too good. You got to remain flirty but not dirty.

Anna:
Not dirty because the minute that you give in to the sex stuff, your ex is always going to take it there.

Chris:
We’ve unfortunately seen this happen a lot where … You’ve definitely seen it where you have a client that ends up sleeping with their ex, thinking that that will help them get back together and it just ends up making things like 10 times worse always. There’s not one situation where I can think of that has worked out really well.

Anna:
Especially in the beginning when you’re building rapport, you should not be doing that. Some methods to handle sexy responses.

Chris:
Some methods not to get dirty.

Anna:
Some methods not to get dirty, you need to deflect or you need to call your ex’s bluff by saying something like, “Take me out some time and maybe we’ll talk more about that or acknowledge and then move on. Just say, “Well, it looks like you’re having a hard time right now, but let’s talk more again about this presentation,” or just respond with an emoji like a winky face and change the topic. That’s what you got to do. You just have to be prepared. If you’re going to take it to that place, you have to be prepared to handle it appropriately.

Chris:
It’s almost like when you open Pandora’s box, don’t be shocked when stuff comes out.

Anna:
You’d be like, “I’m being flirty.” You know your ex. You know your x, so if you’re getting flirty and your ex is responding, so don’t be surprised when your ex gets dirty, right? You have to clean him up or her up just a little bit.

Chris:
Let’s move on to phone calls. How does one flirt on phone calls? Because with texting, you’re allowed to be a lot more witty. You can sit and think about what you’re going to say. With phone calls, the speed gets turned up a little bit.

Anna:
Right, it does. Well, obviously, when you do phone calls, you need to be prepared for them. I always tell coaching clients, “Have at least one funny story to tell your ex and have just in front of you because you’re on the phone, right? Have in front of you three topics you’re going to talk about and some questions.” You always want as much as possible for the stories and the topics to lend themselves to being funny because funny, is attractive. Funny lends itself to the basic level of flirting which is the witty banter, which you were doing by text and you want to be doing by phone. If you can get your ex to laugh, you’re definitely flirting, right?

Chris:
I think funny stories are the … I had a, in junior high, a math teacher who said, “Whenever you go on a date, make sure you go and take them to a Tex-Mex place because there’s always chips there that you can grab and chew on and it gets the nerves out a little bit.” I always kind of look at funny stories is that it breaks the ice to where if you can get them laughing, “Okay, at least, I did something right to engage them in that way,” and then you can get a little bit more confidence. I’ve found personally that on the phone, you’re usually going to do really well if you’re very comfortable in your own skin. That’s some of the holy trinity work, feeling really confident about who you are and just being confident in your own skin so that you’re not really intimidated.

Chris:
Anna is extremely confident in her skin. I’m extremely confident in my skin. That’s why we have such great conversations when we’re doing the YouTube things and sometimes I get off into the woods because that’s just who I am and Anna’s just, “Get back here.”

Anna:
I go off into the woods too and you’re just like, “Well, let’s get back to this.” [crosstalk 00:38:58].

Chris:
Unfortunately, when you get off into the woods, I’m like, “Oh, let’s engage. Let’s keep doing more.”

Anna:
I’m like basically dragging you down into the woods, okay? We’re just like, “Oh, let’s go this. Yeah, let’s go talk about the Rose Bowl picture.”

Chris:
They do end up getting back. It’s just we take the long route there.

Anna:
We take the scenic route, right?

Chris:
Yeah. On the phone-

Anna:
Basically, to flirt over the phone is essentially the same thing about flirting over text, except in real time, so be prepared, right? If your ex gets a little dirty because you’re being flirty, you have to be prepared to shut your ex down and not have phone sex.

Chris:
I always thought phone sex is a weird thing. I’d much rather do the real thing instead of the fake thing.

Anna:
We all would prefer to do the real thing, but I just find that phone sex is easier for people who are maybe my ancient culture because we didn’t have sexting back then and so trying to sex through email was super awkward. Don’t ask me how I know that.

Chris:
Well, the only fun story I have related to that is when I went up for my surgery in Wisconsin, my dad and I were up super late 2:00 AM one morning just watching a TNT version of the movie Arrival which is a really fantastic science fiction movie, but every single ad would be from one of these phone sex places where you could talk to the phone sex. It was just getting obnoxious to the point where I’m just like, “Do I address this with it?” It’s my dad. My 65-year-old dad. We’ve never ever usually talked about stuff like that. It’s incredibly awkward.

Anna:
Is it awkward?

Chris:
It’s really awkward too because I’m crippled, I’m lying on my side the entire day and I can’t even get up and leave. I’m just sitting here watching these phone sex ads. It’s like, “Do you want to hear me talk to you? Pay $9.99 and call this number and we’ll talk to you.” There you go. I guess that informs my phone sex ideology which is, “Just do the real thing.”

Anna:
Just do the real thing. You using your sexy phone sex voice was making me think of when we’re on the phone with someone, we need to make sure that we’re slowing the pace down of how fast we talk and for women making your voices a little bit deeper.

Chris:
Marilyn Monroe used extremely well. I think that it’s been proven that specific … What is the type of voice she would have? I can’t think of it, but they did a psychology study on the effect of men and voices in certain baritone-

Anna:
I think the breathless lower tone tends to be a signal of ignite more sexual desire and attraction in men towards women. From women towards men, they are more attracted to deeper voices and slower paces.

Chris:
It’s a really underrated thing that you just said, which is slowing things down. This is something I had a huge problem with when I first met Jen. The first time we ever talked on the phone was really weird because I was getting ready to go for a workout and I was looking really bad. She facetimed me just out of nowhere, unexplained FaceTime. I did not pick it up because my hair is all messed up.

Anna:
You’re like, “I really like this girl. I don’t want her to see me just out of the gym.”

Chris:
Quickly, I just changed my shirt and I put on a backwards hat to try to hide the hat hair and I’m like, “Okay, I’m going to FaceTime you now. I’m sorry I was just away from my phone,” but the whole thing is I was super nervous. When I get nervous, I talk really fast and I’m very kinetic. It’s always easier to go slower. I think it’s a really underrated comment that you just made there.

Anna:
I think especially on the phone or even if it’s through FaceTime or Skype video or Zoom, you just really need to do your best to relax, right? You need to do your best to radiate confidence. You should give out genuine compliments often. Do your best to listen and do not be rude. If you have a sarcastic sense of humor, hold off on that until the second phone call.

Chris:
The sarcastic sense of humor, the only personal experience I could bring to is there was this one girl who I really liked in college who had a ridiculous sarcastic sense of humor. She made some comment about me being, I don’t know, I can’t remember if it was like, “What are you gay or something? What are you like a trans or something?” and it just turned me off so much. I think she was nervous, but I took such offense to it because it’s just such a rude thing to say for not only me. I’m not but also people who are and it was just … If you do have a sarcastic-

Anna:
Remember [crosstalk 00:44:18] and things like that, just don’t be rude and don’t be discriminatory.

Chris:
Right.

Anna:
Don’t say weird stuff.

Chris:
Maybe hold off on your own your sarcastic jokes.

Anna:
That’s how you flirt on the phone, on video. Obviously, most people know how to flirt in person. You hold eye contact for longer periods. For women, you tend to want to tilt your head forward. There had been a lot of studies on this that women who do so or you tilt your head to the side or forward that shows that women were found more attractive because it makes their eyes bigger. Always making the person laughs, so that’s the same across all mediums. Sitting or standing up straight is helpful. Touching the person, so using physical touch in a way, and then obviously, your body language, so pointing your feet towards the person, being sort of square to them. That’s helpful.

Chris:
For any guys that may be listening, the one thing that I always picked up on when I was dating was anytime you can get a girl to flick her hair behind her ear, you’ve done something good usually, though that can be a nervous tic that can backfires time to time, but I’ve always found that that is a pretty good rule. I’m actually curious to hear what you have to say about it, Anna. Do you feel like that’s like a girl likes what she’s being, almost like a shy-type thing? You get what I’m saying, right?

Anna:
Yeah, I do that all the time. Even now with my husband. Honestly, I find myself doing it with clients when I’m trying to make them like me more, my strategy clients or my political clients.

Chris:
Why wouldn’t they like you, Anna?

Anna:
Well, it’s just-

Chris:
You’re the one who comes up with me, “When you prepare to flirt, don’t be [inaudible 00:46:21].”

Anna:
Sometimes, I’m in the position of saying the thing that’s not very likable, either in coaching or just consulting. Being able to trigger these positive feelings or perceptions about you while you deliver potentially serious or negative news is an important skill.

Chris:
Yeah, it’s not just about how you deliver the news, but it’s also how you’re perceived when you deliver the news.

Anna:
Right. You want to seem sympathetic. That’s part of the reason why I still use some of these techniques today, right? Flirting, when we talk about flirting in the sense of getting your ex back, but you can flirt pretty innocently in all facets of your life.

Chris:
You can.

Anna:
It helps make people be more open to you, men and women. I’m not saying that you have to the way if you’re heterosexual, and if you’re a woman, flirting with a woman is not … Another woman isn’t like, “Oh, I want you and I’m lesbian.” It’s more about, “I want you to like me, so I’m going to compliment you and I’m going to have open body language. I’m going to try to make you laugh.” That’s flirtation.

Chris:
When you posted that we were going to be doing this YouTube video in the Facebook group, you’ve got a lot of comments. People are just like, “Yeah, yeah.” There was actually a guy in there that was making this point, which is like, “This can be used not just if you’re trying to get your ex back but just in all facets of relationships.” Obviously, we’re tailoring it towards breakups because that’s most of the people who are going to be listening to this, but you can use this in everything pretty much. Maybe don’t try the sex flirt stuff with your boss.

Anna:
No, that’s going to get you both in a lot of trouble. Don’t ever do sexy flirting or, “I just spilled something down my shirt” flirting. I have to no-

Chris:
If you’re going to do that, why not go all in and just literally like, “Oh,” just literally drop it on your shirt in front of your boss.

Anna:
Oh, my God. That’s terrible.

Chris:
If you’re going to skid, just slide into the skid. You might as well.

Anna:
Just do it all the way, right? If you’re going to go out-

Chris:
That’s awful advice. Do not listen to that advice, people.

Anna:
Don’t do that. We don’t want to get sued.

Chris:
We’re joking. We are joking.

Anna:
Joking.

Chris:
That is a joke.

Anna:
What are some dos and don’ts? Let’s talk some dos and don’ts of flirting.

Chris:
I think we already talked about a few don’ts. Don’t be using this stuff on your boss, though I think a big don’t is don’t take flirting to a level where you’re going to end up having sex with your ex.

Anna:
Right.

Chris:
We’ve already covered that. Any more don’ts can you think of? I’m sure they’re out there.

Anna:
I think there’s a couple. One, don’t purposely mistext someone, right? To me, it’s super annoying. That is not flirting. That will turn someone off in a heartbeat.

Chris:
Yeah, I was talking in a YouTube video about a situation of a client that I think Jen had actually and she told me about this, about the person faking a panic attack to get their ex’s attention. If you’re doing any of that type of behavior, you have problems that you should be working on first before trying to-

Anna:
What’s another one? Don’t text while under the influence. If you’re-

Chris:
Drunk texting.

Anna:
Drunk texting, high texting, which I have had high texts before. The drunk texting is the worst. You may think that you’re flirting, but you just come off as the noob. I’m sorry as just super dumb.

Chris:
I’ve had a recent example with high flirting. I got a surgery and they give you like this really strong anesthesia. It does not wear off for half a day, right? After I got the surgery, you’re just super open with everyone. You’re talking to everyone. You’re just the life of the party, right? I’m sitting there texting everyone. I’m pretty sure I texted you. I told my wife maybe a month ago, she was like, “I hope you did not send a picture of your scar to people.” I showed her. I had texted 15 different people including you, Anna, I think.

Anna:
Actually I have received quite a few pictures of your scar, but I’m totally fine with it.

Chris:
That’s a great example of me failing that.

Anna:
You’re fine though. You’re okay. What are some others? I would say don’t keep yourself, meaning if your ex only ever texts you past 10:00 or 11:00, I think that your ex is looking to hook up with you. You won’t be able to effectively build rapport or flirt with your ex because that person doesn’t want to date you. You need to respond only at your own risk. That’s a flirting don’t.

Chris:
That’s almost like you have to read between the lines and fill your situation out. There’s obviously limitations to that as well. Some people can only talk during those times, maybe they’re working all day or something, but generally speaking, what Anna’s saying is what we found unfortunately.

Anna:
What’s another one? I think this is pretty common. We see this in the Facebook group. Don’t be needy. Neediness kills attraction. Two of the most common ways that I believe neediness shows up in text learning is, one, when you’re too available, and two, when you over-text. Being too available and replying instantly to every text is unattractive. Any attempts of flirting will just fall flat. It makes you look like if nothing else going on in your life, you’re chasing. Any attraction that you’ve built will likely start to fade.

Chris:
This goes back into what you were saying about how you’re noticing a lot of the clients that we end up having have those anxious attachment styles. This is a very common practice for people who are anxious. They just cannot help themselves, but over-text, become extra needy when they don’t get a response right away is a really common example we see.

Anna:
I think there’s one that pertains especially to guys and this is my last don’t. I’m trying to go through all in my head, but the other one is don’t fall into traps. Exes, especially women, will test you. Women want to see if you can maintain your composure. Often men fail this test more often than women. Guys tend to get overly excited and they get almost turned into lapdogs when a woman turns things as they perceive sexual like flirting. For guys out there, don’t make this mistake. When she flirts with you, don’t take that as an opportunity to go turn into something dirty or sexy time, right? It ends up showing that you’re no different than any other person who’s chasing her out there, right?

Chris:
Also, if you have a history of doing this in the past, it’s just like, “Oh, he’s still the same. All he cares about is that.” That’s something that actually would prefer you guys who are listening and falling into those traps. Watch what Anna and I talked about last time with the love languages because I feel like that really hits because men who get overly excited about that, they’re probably going to have a really high physical touch love language, but the woman’s probably not. What you need to be doing is probably watching that and trying to find some of our recommendations about how you can hit on some of the love languages that aren’t physical touch that will show her that you are different than the other guys. Then guess what? Then you get those physical touch benefits.

Anna:
Let’s talk about a few dos. I know we’re probably getting a little bit late, but I think some dos include taking chances and having fun, right? In terms of taking chances, you shouldn’t be afraid to ask unusual or funny or different questions or throw unusual comments into a conversation. That’s part of the fun. Text flirting, phone conversation flirting, in-person flirting, it’s supposed to be fun. You need to keep your focus on having a good time the whole time, right?

Chris:
Yeah. That’s another mic drop.

Anna:
Well, another one is also always trying to keep the conversation moving forward. Again, this sits along the lines of, before you have any interaction with your ex, you should plan them, at least a beginning, middle, the middle being a high point and an end, right? It doesn’t have to be detailed, “I’m going to say this, this and this.” It could just be, “I’m trying to get to this place. I want to bring up these topics. This is how I think we’re going to close out,” right? You want to move the conversation forward. Rather than assuming that your last text for example upset your ex, if there’s not a response, assume that your text just got lost in the shuffle. Don’t dwell on the fact that your ex hasn’t responded or don’t ask if you’ve done something wrong. What you want to do is just move on, start a new thread of conversation and try a different way of flirting the next time.

Chris:
Again, the one big do I would say is make sure that you’re comfortable in your own skin, especially if we’re going to start flirting, because insecurities will come out, especially if things don’t go your way. We’ve seen this happen a lot in the Facebook group where women and men will try to … Usually it always happens when an ex doesn’t respond at all and they start getting really insecure. Not losing momentum from that is a really good approach to have.

Anna:
Right.

Chris:
I try to make points as good as yours, but they’re never as good as yours.

Anna:
No, your points are fantastic.

Chris:
Whatever.

Anna:
I did get a coaching client today who did say that the program you [inaudible 00:56:43] …

Chris:
You did not have to bring that up.

Anna:
… 1,0000% better than anything else that is out there.

Chris:
Sorry, I didn’t hear that. Could you say that?

Anna:
This coaching client said that he had researched all the programs and actually had bought two other programs before this one. He believes hands down that you, Chris Seiter, have created a program that is 1,000% better-

Chris:
You just know what to do, Anna, to get me in a good mood.

Anna:
Words of affirmation is your love language, isn’t it?

Chris:
I do have a big words of affirmation. You’ll notice I’ll always stay on … I should not be saying this on a YouTube in front of everyone, but Facebook Lives that I end up doing, anytime someone gives me a compliment, I specifically remember that person like, “Oh, I’m going to give them an extra answer in the Facebook Live.” That’s so bad. That’s like playing favorites.

Anna:
Well, now, our Facebook group members, they know that and they’re going to be like, “Oh,” they’re going to start complimenting you, so there you go.

Chris:
Now, it will be ruined. It’ll be inauthentic comments.

Anna:
No, people love you in the group and the program is amazing. I think one of the things that we still have to talk about-

Chris:
This is the biggest do I have by the program. No, I’m just kidding. No pressure, no pressure. This is what happens when my head gets big, guys.

Anna:
1,000%. He was not lying. He was, “1,000%.” I was like, “I need to talk to Chris.” Anyway-

Chris:
We did put a lot of work into the program and more work into the coaching. Make sure you [crosstalk 00:58:19].

Anna:
A lot of work has gone into the coaching, definitely, definitely. It’s a really great product. I’m really proud of the coaching that we do.

Chris:
I’m proud of everything. It was not this good when we first started. We’ve gotten a lot better.

Anna:
Oh, gosh. I just remember those first coaching sessions, not that we didn’t try our best, but as you just get into it more and more, it just becomes more finetuned over time.

Chris:
I remember doing coaching sessions. I did 60 in one month. I remember thinking like, I should probably refund the first coaching session. It was not anywhere near as good as the first one, the later ones when you start to hit your groove.

Anna:
Lucky Tyler. Tyler gets to step into something that has a lot more structure than a few years ago. He should be fine.

Chris:
We’re getting more coaches. We’re trying to take over the world one coach at a time.

Anna:
I think we need to touch on the last thing, which is the friendzoning part, a friendzone flirt, because that is often the strategy that we often suggest and I don’t think there’s enough either written about it or discussed in the group or in the-

Chris:
This is an area where we could definitely beef up some of the content which means it’s probably a good topic for a video on the YouTube channel. Flirt friendzone flirt, I think probably the best place to start is defining what that concept is for newbies who aren’t familiar with our terminology. Do you want to take it or me?

Anna:
You can take it. You were the one who first talked about it.

Chris:
Friendzone flirt is basically what it sounds like. We found that it’s also like a variation, I think, a push pull, the push pull method. Generally speaking, when you end up wanting to flirt, we notice a lot of people end up, flirt, flirt, flirt, flirt, flirt and they overdo it. Every once in a while, what you’re going to want to do is “friendzone” and this is actually really good for exes who aren’t really biting on the flirting. You’ll flirt with them and then you’ll … The best way I can describe it is you’ll do something that makes them think that you like them and then you’ll do something that makes them think they’re in that gray area where they’re not sure if you like them or not.

Chris:
Then you’ll do something that will make them think that you like them again and that rollercoaster of emotions, that emotional value change that they go through from positive to negative back to positive, the more times you go through that roller coaster, it almost gets them more invested and it just ends up better for you. That’s the general idea of flirt friendzone flirt, but Anna has definitely refined it for our coaching clients and she’s going to tell you how. She’s taken my very basic concept and made it into like a 5,000 times better concept.

Anna:
No, we touched on flirt friendzone flirt before when we talked about making it flirty, but keeping but not being dirty, right?

Chris:
Yeah.

Anna:
It’s basically the general tactics of playing hard to get. We just spent this hour talking about flirting, the friendzone part people often get confused about like, “What does that mean? How do I friendzone someone? I don’t want to friendzone him or her forever. I don’t want that my ex to think that I’m not interested.” What you do is you flirt and then you friendzone. To me, friendzone falls into five general behaviors. Limited availability. The other is sounding busy. The third is being a hard to get a hold up. Four is, I think, seeking attention but then totally disregarding it or showing interest, i.e. flirting and then letting it die, just not responding.

Anna:
Some examples are acting busy, staying busy and prioritizing other things. That’s how you could friendzone. Let’s say you flirt with your ex and your ex responds, and then the next day, he or she reaches out to you. You need to stay a little busy. You just say, “Oh, love to talk to you but,” or just, “Can’t talk right now, busy at work.” Then wait until much later like a few hours, until in the evening, around 8:00 PM or 9:30 and just pick up and just ask how your ex’s day was or, “Tell me what happened in your day,” completely overstepping the flirt part, right?

Chris:
This is actually a concept that Jennifer, I almost dropped the F-bomb, is a master at. She used to do this to me all the time where we would have a flurry of text messages for two hours straight and then the rest of the day nothing. I’d be sitting there thinking, “What happened? I almost imagined you want to do things to interrupt the rhythm of a conversation or the flow of a conversation. It’s like flowing really well, and then all of a sudden, like Anna said, limited availability. She’s like, “Pause.” There was a couple times where she didn’t reengage until the next day or the next morning. Of course, I’m stubborn. I’m just like, “Well, I’m going to wait until she does it.” Then you’re waiting half of the next day and you break down finally.

Anna:
Or you’re so glad to hear from that person if it’s later in that day because at first you’re angry and then you’re like, “I’m so glad and it’s so fun to talk to you again,” right?

Chris:
Yeah, except in our case, it was like a pattern had been established where we’re texting pretty much every single day, but anytime that pattern got interrupted, it would make me think something like, “Is she seeing some other guy?” That really goes into that fear of loss thing that Anna and I were talking about, but always what ended up happening too is I’d be having this internal battle in my head, and by the time, let’s say there was a couple of times where we’d be texting and then she just dropped off for the rest of the day and I wouldn’t hear from her until the next morning or something. It would take everything I had to not say, “Where were you?” because I didn’t want to seem insecure, even though I was totally going through those crazy emotional value changes. That’s an example of what flirt friendzone flirt can do to a male or a female if you use it on them, but it works pretty well with males.

Anna:
My husband, who knows about this program, but he would often ask me because I am so busy. As much as I liked him at the time, they’re just some times where he was not as interesting as the work that I was doing or the friends that I have or the stuff that I was doing, so I’m like-

Chris:
Thank God this guy married you, right?

Anna:
Yeah, thank God. What in the world caused him to do that? There would just be times when I’m just like, “You’re really fun, but honestly, there are five more things more fun than you, so I’m going to go do those five things and I’ll answer-

Chris:
You would actually say that to him?

Anna:
No, I wouldn’t say that. That would be [crosstalk 01:05:21].

Chris:
It would just be implied.

Anna:
Right, it just be implied because I would take so long to respond to a lot of his calls and texts or just wouldn’t respond at all. He’d asked me a question. I would wait until a day or two later and then say something completely unrelated to the question he asked me. Then he would say, “I did ask you two days ago about this.” I’m like, “Oh, I totally forgot.”

Chris:
That drives me nuts too because that’s happened to me with Jen, but I think it’s a really great example. You actually did find something that was more appealing or the work was engaging enough to where you were allowed to be busy and enjoy what you were doing outside of starting relationship with-

Anna:
When we met, he knew I was always busy, right? He knew I had a lot of friends. He knew I had a lot of interests. He wasn’t competing for my affection, but he was competing for my time. That’s something that he craved all the time. He craved my time and attention because I have so many things pulling at me that sometimes I’ll just go with what is easiest to give attention to. You’re either on it or you’re not when it comes to me.

Chris:
To me, that seems to be the most essential aspect which is you … All right, most of the clients that come to us are really desperate. Let’s be honest. They really want their exes back. They will do everything they can including cleaning their entire schedule just to have a conversation with their ex …

Anna:
You can’t do that.

Chris:
… but your approach is different. Your approach is, “Look, you need to earn that time.” I think that paradigm shift is part of why the flirting concepts that we’re talking about today can work. You need to come at it almost from a position of strength because there’s a difference between someone who’s like, “I’ll be available for you and I’ll clear my entire schedule and flirt with you,” versus-

Anna:
That.

Chris:
Versus you.

Anna:
The complete availability. To bring it all back to the beginning, flirting essentially is about leveraging loss and regret. The ungettable person just does that naturally. If you don’t have that level of confidence yet, the way you do that is being very conscious of, in the wake of a breakup, your ex needs to earn again the privilege of your time and your attention. You should not ever give all of that away immediately. That’s why you take your time. That’s why you do flirt friendzone flirt. This is why you interact with sphere of influence. This is why you watch your own trinity and you make everyone aware of it on your social media, right? Also in the topics that you talk about when you are in building rapport face, this is a mindset.

Chris:
Honestly, I feel like this should be required watching or listening for pretty much everyone in our Facebook group. What we’re talking about here is so relevant to everyone’s situation. What we’re really talking about here is really, like you said, tying it back to the ungettable person, the ungettable mindset that we talked about, the ungettable girl, the ungettable guy. It’s all about fear of loss. It’s all about creating regret and flirting works so much better when you have this type of leverage.

Anna:
You guys, if you want to put it in nicer terms, it’s about generating desire. The desirable person is very sure of himself or herself, right? They operate in that way and they say once … That’s how I thought of it when I was getting my ex back, who I’m married to, right? I thought, “We’re not together, so you need to earn the privilege of my time and attention in order for me to stay.”

Chris:
To me, this is the most powerful concept that we have fostered through Ex Boyfriend Recovery, Ex Girlfriend Recovery, every extra recovery property that we own basically. I would say the key to everyone, we’re talking about it in terms that are going to resonate with you, creating desire, right? Psychologists would talk about this as secure attachment. Everyone has different rules for the idea, but you need to almost embody this idea of you want to give yourself the best chance of having successful flirting and it doesn’t happen overnight. The work doesn’t stop unfortunately when you get your ex back. I was talking about with the holy trinity of the story. I’m having trouble balancing it even now. It’s not like you become a master overnight. You just consistently are doing this for the rest of your life theoretically.

Anna:
Right, because effective learning requires again, what did I say the beginning of this? Intelligence, body language, creativity, and empathy. The skillful flirter does these things well.

Chris:
The big thing I think that a lot of people on YouTube specifically, because they’re not really in the program or anything. We’re trying to convince them to come into the program, essentially that’s what this is. I think most people want us to give them like, “Send these five texts. It works.” That’s actually not as important as this concept we’re talking about because everything that Anna is talking about isn’t anything you say. It’s about how smart you are, how witty you are, how confident you are in your skin, everything. We did give you things to say, we gave you examples, but it’s a lot deeper than that.

Anna:
Right. You, anyone who’s listening to this and who’s not part of the Facebook group or who hasn’t coached with us, one of the things you need to remember is you know your ex the best, right? For me or Chris or any other coach within Ex Boyfriend Recovery, within the breakup space, we would be doing you a disservice. Your relationship is not a cookie cutter. Why would you want the five things to say to any ex that makes you like every single person out there and your ex may have already heard these things? Don’t be like that. Be as unique as your relationship is.

Chris:
I actually think this is one of the biggest assets to our program, which is we do try to create the framework that we see works, but we also have worked in there like, “Look, you have to do this on your own as well.” The only type of one-on-one help you can get is if you do coaching with us. Sometimes you have to be able to kind of think for yourself a little bit. You know your ex better than we know your ex. You’re going to know what to say probably better than we will be able to advise you, but we can give you best practices. We can give you the mindset you need to have. We can give you the path to success, but-

Anna:
In fact, we can tell you the science behind things. We can tell you the logic, but that’s-

Chris:
If you’re sitting there and you’re listening to this YouTube episode or this podcast episode, wherever we’re posting this, one thing I will say is our program I feel is different than most other programs because everything that we say has evolved to become … It’s backed by science, it’s backed by psychologists or we’ve seen it work in the field. We are not just saying these things because we think, “Oh, this sounds good.” No, this actually has results oriented attached to it.

Anna:
Right, a lot of what we talk about actually has scientific research that we can point to as the basis of it, right? We can point to a journal. We can point to a behavioral economist, for example. We can point to a Nobel Prize-winning psychologist or psychiatrist. We can point to something or things we’re talking about is grounded in science and logic. It’s not just this random stuff.

Chris:
Actually, one thing people don’t know is when I first met Anna, the very first thing she told me was, “I initially only followed you because you were the only one talking about research from Dan Ariely, which is, I think it was something-

Anna:
A behavioral economist.

Chris:
I think it was talking about like the misattribution of emotions or some concept. It’s been a while since we had that up and I’ve visited that, but the point the point we’re making is that’s what makes us different. If you’re asking what makes us different than all the other breakup coaches out there, why we are one of the only ones that are able to post so many different success stories and have actual people who get their exes back to sit down and talk with me, why Anna has over a 70% success rate which is still the most astronomical thing I’ve ever heard.

Anna:
That that percentage is real. I promise.

Chris:
I’m not saying it’s not real. That’s my point. It’s so crazy. It’s insane how good that is.

Anna:
It’s higher though, if you take into account people who decide, “You know what? I’m a lot better than what my ex presents to me,” and I’m-

Chris:
Theoretically it could be 85% or something.

Anna:
No, if we add those people, it’s actually 94.3% because I read the numbers.

Chris:
I’m speechless. I’m speechless. If you’re asking what makes us different and why we can get results, I understand there’s a social stigma behind getting exes back, but if you understand why we get results is because of this concept. We’re not just pulling this out of a hat and saying, “This sounds good.” We are actually doing research like scientists would do research. We’re figuring out what works. We have a framework. Anna talked about the client that she had that said, “Wow, this is like the best program ever.” It didn’t start out that way. It’s only because every two years, I would update that thing with what we learned. Guess what? Now that I updated it in 2020, I’ve already found new things that are working better. In two years, we’ve got to update it again. I just continued this because that is what you should do if you want someone to be successful. That is just the truth.

Anna:
Our coaching structure continues to evolve because of the science. There’s more and more science out there that points us to new directions. The structure that we have, that we present in our one-on-one coaching is, I think, unparalleled.

Chris:
I would agree with that. I can’t speak for other coaches, but I do know a lot of the other players in the industry who do coaching. I can tell you that they are not going to provide you the homework that Anna will provide you with.

Anna:
Well, you know I’m Asian, I do believe of homework.

Chris:
I did not say that, but I’m saying what-

Anna:
I’m just saying.

Chris:
Some of the stuff that she applies when you do a coaching session, it’s not like you just get, “Oh, an hour talk.” It’s also you get, “Hey, these are the next steps you should take.” You also get a huge discount on the follow-up session if you want to do a follow-up session with us. We always try to do what we feel is best for the clients. In some cases, we have to refund people and say, “We don’t think you should get this person back,” or, “You need to see a licensed therapist. We can’t help you.” We are not above putting profits over people.

Anna:
We’ve done that a lot. I’ll say, I don’t think this person should be putting their money towards coaching. They need to put that money towards their own mental health, with a therapist or they probably need to be putting it more into their own bills, right? Your own wellbeing is the most important thing. Getting an ex back is not ever more important than ever.

Chris:
Overall, I guess the point we’re trying to make is if you want to sign up for coaching with Anna or even our new coach, Coach Tyler, just go to our website and go to our coaching page and sign up for us. Unfortunately, Anna and Tyler, well, Anna’s getting … We just keep like starting and stopping with you. I don’t know what it is, but I turned coaching on for you and it’s like-

Anna:
Then I’m full. I’m open for two days and suddenly I have 70 sessions on my calendar. I don’t know how that happens. It’s like magic.

Chris:
It wasn’t two days. It was a weird thing. We started January. We turned coaching on on January 1st. We turned it off on January 3rd because the next available session for her was on January 17th. I wait a few days. I’m like, “Okay, cool. Let’s turn it back on.” I turned it back on and I have to turn it off again because she’s booked up and people are going to be complaining about how long it takes to get a session.

Anna:
Sorry.

Chris:
Now luckily, we’ve got coach Tyler to help out with some more availability, but even he started to get booked out which is …

Anna:
He’s popular.

Chris:
… I guess it’s a good problem to have, but my point is don’t wait around. If you want to do coaching and you’re like, “Oh, that sounds cool. I’ll just wait,” you might not have an opportunity.

Anna:
Also our prices are going up.

Chris:
The prices will be going up pretty substantially only for frontend coaching sessions and people who end up buying our program in our Facebook group will be getting a discount on the raised coaching sessions, but our prices will be going up starting-

Anna:
For the initial session.

Chris:
For the initial, right. Follow-up sessions will still remain at what they currently are, but the initial session will be going up quite substantially because we do notice we’re trying to only get people who are serious about this. We noticed there is a difference between … We don’t want people who can’t afford to coach with us coach with us because then it’s just not good for anyone. We have to either refund them because they can’t make their bills and they shouldn’t be spending money on coaching when they should be spending it on their bills. Plus, Anna is worth a lot more than what we’re paying right now.

Anna:
Well, I love coaching and I love what I do with you and with all my clients, but my hourly rate is in the high three figures, low four figures per hour, not including [inaudible 01:20:17]-

Chris:
She is a consultant for big Fortune 500 companies and her-

Anna:
100 companies. Fortune 100 companies.

Chris:
I’m sorry, Fortune 100. You got a little small business, Ex Boyfriend Recovery over here.

Anna:
Perhaps a pretty big political person. We cannot say the name. I’m just-

Chris:
I would say arguably the biggest political person, not the biggest bad one, the biggest good one.

Anna:
Well, I can’t say.

Chris:
I guess it’s a matter of perspective, but yes, Anna is a well-sought after-

Anna:
A fairly big one.

Chris:
What Anna’s trying to say is I only get you guys the best.

Anna:
Chris knows how to pick them, right? I’m here because I like helping people. I fully believe that everyone should be able to recover or find love for themselves.

Chris:
If you want to do coaching with Anna or even Tyler who we haven’t talked about, who also has some pretty good credentials-

Anna:
He’s in medical school. He’ll be such a doctor.

Chris:
We’ll end up having to call him doc pretty soon.

Anna:
Doc Tyler.

Chris:
Doc Tyler. Been watching too many Back to the Future reruns, but if you’re watching this on YouTube, simply look in the description below for the coaching and just click on that. You can sign up with us while we have the sessions available. We’ll see you guys next time.

Anna:
Thanks for listening.

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